Thursday, November 16, 2006 Kevin Lightner Wants to Sue Me Take a look at what I received in email today. I've already removed all of his content minus this post which was sent my way via reed. Kevin was upset about me removing some comments including one of his from this post. If he actually does attempt to sue it will be interesting as it will open a new precedent for all bloggers out there. If anyone wants to chime in, please do. I will of course comply within the full extent of the law. Kevin, please send me what you want removed and I will look at it. I will remove any content that is specifically yours - words, pictures your name it. I'm putting this up in case people wonder where my blog went. posted by matrix at 11/16/2006 12:06:00 PM 165 Comments: Anonymous said... Matrix, are you getting enough sleep? 12:13 PM matrix said... I missed that. : ) It's removed. I'm going to look into that statement about it being protected. Trust me. I don't think it is. 12:21 PM Anonymous said... Jeez. Apologize profusely to the man and do what he says. He is one of the most important people in the synth world, and often either contributes material or is the source from which you get material for your blog. If you didn't give him credit for his work, then he has every right to be mad. I don't know if he'll actually take legal action but it would be pretty bad for you if he does, in many ways.
P.S. as said before, posting an email that says "posting private emails is prosecuteable" at the end of it is probably not a good move. 12:23 PM Anonymous said... richard, play nice now. 12:24 PM Anonymous said... There is no such thing as privacy on the internet. You can post any email anyone has sent you at any time, even if they request it not be posted. If there is no implied privacy, so its is not illegal to post it.
As for images, HA, good luck with that lawsuit. How do you think websites like somethingawful.com have been around so long without getting sued? 12:25 PM Kevin Lightner said... I asked Matrix who gave him permission to use certain items and told him that I didn't appreciate him reposting every email we have as if it's for the public (as he's doing here.)
He then went and changed all the posts I submitted to "anonymous", keeping the content, but removing my credit.
He wouldn't reply to any emails either. (and still hasn't!)
But take a look for himself, this is how he deals with someone that simply ASKED who gave him permission. He'll delete your posts, remove credits, but post your personal emails and keep your contents.
Please note that emails WITH a notice indicating privacy ARE protectable. It's done all the time in the legal and business world. 12:26 PM morechampagneformybats said... gotta give credit where credit is due to avoid making people mad, but on the other hand, this is a community with many common interests, and so i hope everyone settles down, apologies are given where due, and we can all get back to ingesting the steady stream of synth crack that we need to get through the day and night. 12:31 PM Dave said... Sorry to hear about all this & I hope you two can make peace soon. :o( 12:31 PM morechampagneformybats said... i should add that, you should give credit where credit is due, so you don't make people mad and want to sue...and so that you don't run afoul of the law...even if you fall under a fair use exception. 12:34 PM matrix said... Kevin, let me know what you want removed and I'll remove it. I spent hours removing what you asked me to remove all references to you and all content from your site which honestly wasn't much. This is not meant as a slight to you btw. I can remove the via anonymous comments for content that is not yours if you want me to as well. Just let me know as well. 12:34 PM Lurker said... I've lurked here for several months (great lunchtime reading!), and have read the archives.
Frankly, I don't understand why the anonymous post about the Moog Foundation was censored. I'm glad I read it before it was censored, because it does bring up a valid point. Kevin agreed with that post, and suddenly his many contributions to your blog are no longer welcome unless they're attributed to some unknown person?
Why post an e-mail that specifically told you not to post it? It only makes you look like a whiny child. 12:35 PM matrix said... morechampagneformybats, the problem is the opposite. Kevin wanted all his content removed along with any mention to him his name or his site. I had to REMOVE credit per his request. It's lame but that's what he asked me to do, so I did it. 12:35 PM Anonymous said... matrix, are you insane? you removed his credits and did this? why? he asked you a question and you treat him like this? 12:36 PM morechampagneformybats said... This post has been removed by the author. 12:36 PM Kevin Lightner said... There's tons of pics and copyrighted text still up there, but NO, I didn't ask for everything to be removed at first. He ignored my email ASKING about the stuff. Then he removed my posts and ignored an email about that too. Finally I told him that if was going to remove my posts and comments, get rid of everything. Again.. he ignored it. So I sent a private letter which he reposted today. That's the truth.
Dave, it could just as well of been you and your stuff. Think about it. 12:43 PM HZ said... Some people have no class. 12:45 PM Anonymous said... When you're done shooting yourself in the foot, could you put up more synth posts? Thanks 12:49 PM morechampagneformybats said... lotta anonymous douchebags adding fuel to the fire.
matrix, sorry i misunderstood the issue and sorry if you all caught the NERD post, but still, bottom line...sounds like the beef has been squashed or close to it. let's shake hands and move on.
sometimes people screw up, ignore a problem for a while, and then try to solve it incorrectly. sometimes people don't like the way communication is going and get threatening. it is never to late to resolve the issue nicely.
now that everyone has everyone else's attention, squash it.
kevin...totally valid complaint. matrix...maybe you didn't respond to kevin's friendly requests in a timely manner...simple enough...
maybe you guys should talk privately, telephonically?
you guys can hash it out...we'll all go get some beer and wings and wait till you guys git 'er done.
hopefully sooner. you know, as opposed to later. 12:52 PM matrix said... Ok, guys here's how it works:
1. I post stuff I either come across or that people send me.
2. The stuff people send me is either their content or something them came across themselves.
3. Kevin has sent me both, stuff he contributed and stuff he came accross.
4. I have a policy on Anonymous posting as there is no telling who made the Anonymous post.
5. All sites and forum have moderators
6. Kevin did not take likely to me exercising this.
7. Kevin asked me to remove all reference, links and content that was his.
8. I interpreted this as EVERYTHING with his name or a link. Think about it, by me putting up a post that is not on Kevin's content but says via Kevin Lightner, that implies he endorses the site and sends me stuff.
9. I actually did not have to remove any of his content. Seriously I didn't because he gave me the permission at the time. If he changes his mind later, that does not mean I have to go back and change it.
10. I went ahead and spent HOURS removing his stuff as requested.
I always give credit and was annoyed that I had to remove it because of Kevin.
Also note that Kevin is 100% against removing comments. What do I do about all the posts with comments? 12:58 PM matrix said... Oh regarding not replying to Kevin's emails, I never got them. The last one I received was one on him asking me to remove the content. When I replied that I did, I received an undeliverable. I assumed he blocked my account. I think Kevin is playing me and you. 1:00 PM Dave said... The internet is a big, impersonal juggernaut whose inhabitants have frequently, hundreds and hundreds of times, cached my animations and content otherwise for their own personal use, and possibly even gain.
I have decided to let all of it slide, lazily due to the fact that its merits outweigh its piracies. Pervasive, albeit pirated, coverage has let to enough pseudo-fame to sell a couple hundred DVDs.
Having said this, I can't in good conscience compare a bunch of animations of naked boob-luvvin animals, or even a dozen strips about a keyboard-luvvin rat (whose toons I've always granted Matrix's permission to post, with great appreciation!), to the bottomless pit of resources that Kevin has provided since the '80s ('70s?). The stuff online really is the tip of the iceberg but I'm nevertheless extremely grateful for not only Kevin's synthfool site but also blogs like Matrixsynth and Music Thing, otherwise I might have missed a few cool details in the maelstrom of content Kevin owns.
Just want you guys to know that I personally understand and appreciate both sides of this debate, and both of you as well. Hopefully a greater understanding of the issues can come out of it, if nothing else positive.
The email posting bit... ugh. Fun synthy email discussions are harmless, but if there's information in the email that carries intrinsic value and took a lot of time and care to write out & is then turned around for free public consumption, it can only benefit the site providing the content if it ain't credited (preferably with linky goodness).
I think Kevin should publish his very own book (as opposed to just providing a slew of content for other works like Forrest's awesome Encyclo's). Not only would I buy it the day it came out, but it would be a real, financial way for Kevin to get kickback for his fame... :o) 1:03 PM matrix said... This is what I received. If you think I'm faking this, let me know and I'll put it up on a share so you can see for yourself.
This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.
Delivery to the following recipients failed.
synthfool@synthfool.com 1:04 PM matrix said... And for the record. I'm not the one threatening to sue. Again, I SPENT HOURS cleaning up the site on Kevin's request when I did not have to. Again Kevin, let me know what you want and I'll do it.
As for putting up this post. Kevin stated that he notified Blogger. If Blogger decided to take the site down, I needed to let my readers know why. 1:07 PM Anonymous said... Still making things worse, eh?
Emails are private correspondence not intended for public viewing. By reposting such emails, you violate privacy laws. Business emails are like this all the time. Otherwise, business secrets could be shared without consequences. People have been sued over sharing emails in public. Don't fool yourself. You're breaking the law. 1:09 PM Anonymous said... Ok if Kevin had the stuff on his site then I`m sorry but it`s public domain simple, copyright is for greedy business people, matrix you did nothing wrong in my eyes and Kevin stfu 1:09 PM Anonymous said... If matrix is doing this on company time, Kevin could theoretically sue your employer. Is your boss very rich? 1:10 PM matrix said... "The email posting bit... ugh. Fun synthy email discussions are harmless, but if there's information in the email that carries intrinsic value and took a lot of time and care to write out & is then turned around for free public consumption, it can only benefit the site providing the content if it ain't credited (preferably with linky goodness)."
I believe there were two posts Kevin wrote for the site. I removed them along with the comments for now. Again Kevin asked me to remove all reference to him and his site, so that was the only option. If Kevin wants me to put them back up I will. 1:11 PM Anonymous said... OMG.. just because something is online doesn't mean it's public domain! Go copy a pic from Disney.com and say it's yours. You'll be staring at a judge tootsweet.
What a maroon!! 1:12 PM matrix said... Kevin, why are you using the anonymous account? : )
Kevin, my entire career has been in software. I know my rights. : ) 1:14 PM Dave said... That's the part I don't get... why would Kev want an email posted but *without* crediting him. To each his own, I guess... 1:15 PM Anonymous said... I think that this took the "synth" out of Kevins domain! 1:15 PM synthbaron said... LOL, time to grab some popcorn. 1:18 PM matrix said... Dave, when Kevin sent it he did want credit. I always give credit, you know that. I also know of a lot of blogs that do not give credit aside from the link to the post itself. I've sent content in to other blogs. They take it put the post up and don't bother crediting me. Why? Because the content I sent isn't mine. It's from another site. The via links on most blogs are out of courtesy. I do it because I want to support and promote others.
Kevin asked me to remove all reference to him and his site, which I thought was understandable considering saying this is via Kevin Lightner ads an endorsement from him to this site. Does that make sense?
The content wasn't his. It was another site or videos on YouTube, etc. They have nothing to do with Kevin. He just sent me the link and said check it out. I checked it out and if I liked it I put up a post. You will notice that a lot of my YouTube posts say YouTube via followed by Sent my way via. The YouTube via gives credit to the person that took the time to make the video available, and the Sent my way via gives credit to you sent me the link to the video. So for Kevin I removed all the "Sent my way via"
Think about that for a bit. Also think this. What do I have to gain from all of this? Hours lost going back and updating all of these posts? Losing Kevin's support? I don't want any of this. 1:26 PM Anonymous said... You're some very nasty work. I hope he sues you too. 1:37 PM synthbaron said... Aww man, there go the post deletions again. 1:37 PM Anonymous said... i'm surprised everyone's on kevin's side. all i've seen on this site in the past month is evidence of Kevin accusing people of stealing content from his site and making public cease and desist announcements and generally complaining. dude, get over it. these are pictures of synths. 1:37 PM Doktor Future said... Matrix has always asked me for permission to post content. Even when I've said: hey dude, go nuts, post everything, I'm easy -- he still asks.
I have no problem with matrix. This is about my favorite site.
I am completely against censorship, and consequently, against deleting comments, even from bozos (like me :), but it's Matrix's blog, and he has to do what he thinks best.
I don't understand Kevin's position. People threatening to sue anybody can be tricky. It's not as if you can relax near them. 1:51 PM morechampagneformybats said... with your very established system of crediting forwarded info and those that forward it to you, and the fact that posts frequently are informative, educational, and part of an ongoing discussion about synths and their uses, and that all posts are open to comment, you have a good argument for the fair use of the stuff you post. sure, if kevin wants to challenge that he can, and you can ignore him, or oblige him, or you guys can talk about it. i am not sure what kind of remedy that he would gain from a court or arbitration and how much it would cost him just to get there. i'm guessing that it is not worth it, unless he is trying to make a point and has a few years on his hands. do you know how much it would cost to have a legit attorney pursue this?
i'm gonna get back to what i had to say before - one of you email the other a phone number and get to talking.
your dispute is bad, but some of the negative crap posted has been much worse, and not a lot of fun.
my wings are getting cold and my beer is getting warm. 1:52 PM Fountain of Filth said... I've been around the vintage synth community for nearly a decade. I've seen tons of hissyfits on AH, Synth DIY, AHOT, Gas Station, etc.
This, by far, is the silliest of them all.
Matrix, get back to work and be a Dad. Your efforts will be much more appreciated in those arenas. 1:54 PM Anonymous said... I think Keving is not taking the point here:
Tghis is a blog, not a standard website.
Do you want to sue matrix?? LOL
Don`t worry matrix, just remove all the KL content and BAN him for life... 1:58 PM Chris said... This site does so much good for the synth community and everyone involved I can't understand why people are here only to stir up the fire. The synth community needs this site, I need this site. Matrix please, please keep up the good work, and if we all love everything synthy then lets all pull in the same direction, it's too small a community not too. 1:58 PM Anonymous said... this is like me suing god for every dumb drunk thing i ever did...i wish i could. i'd be rich! 1:59 PM JB said... Hi Matrix and all fellow readers. Matrix has outstanding ethics when it comes to posting, and he does'nt do it for profit, and if you know this i don't think it's fair to criticize him wether he amde a mistake or not. Also a bunch of those anonymous posts are possibly from the same person, possibly synthjerk himself, so it should'nt be used to judge the readers' global opinion. In any case, Kevin Lightner has poor marketing strategies! Matrix i appreciate your site so much, it's on top of my list! You'll still be great without those few KL related posts. THANKS!!! 2:10 PM JB said... by anonymus posts i ment comments. 2:13 PM Anonymous said... What are all those links on the right side of the main page for? Matrix you would have better ground to stand on if you removed anything you make money on. 2:18 PM JB said... If anyone thinks Matrix runs this blog for any other reason than a passionate love of synths they have to be f**ckin mad! 2:30 PM JSRockit said... I don't even get what's going on here. I think someone, not matrix, thinks his content and words contribute a little too much to this site...when in reality I didn't even know the name until this post. I'm sure most don't pay attention to the random names given credit on this site... just to what is important...the synths! Stuff like this is what will ultimately kill the internet. I'm sure Matrix is not generating much cash from this... wait, Matrix, are you? 2:33 PM Things to Come Records said... Hi Matrix,
Im not sure I understand what happened here but I just want you to know I enjoy your blog 2 times a day or more and I hope no one takes legal action against you.
Could this have something to do with your post about having over a million hits or views or something? Are there some gold diggers about? Not that Im even sure your making a penny from this blog... nor do I care... I like it.
Anyway... to whomever is bugging the Matrix... lay off please! 2:36 PM Anonymous said... My advice: clean house as needed, take the conversation with KL offline; delete this blog entry and move forward. There have been sunnier days on Matrixsynth and I personally don't see the need to enshrine this in the archives. Synth happens. 2:54 PM Anonymous said... Matrix:
1. Close this thread immediately 2. Cease all personal communication with the person who has threatened you with legal action 3. Contact a lawyer
Once someone threatens a lawsuit, no matter how frivolous, it is in your worst interest to resolve it yourself.
Thanks. 3:00 PM Anonymous said... I don't know who is at fault in this situation, but the guy threatening to sue is a retard. 3:09 PM matrix said... Sorry synthbaron. My last name was posted so I removed it. As for taking this post down, I think I need it in case anything does happen. Trust me if Kevin does sue me he will be suing all blogs and the press out there, not just me - if he sets some new legal precedent it will affect all blogs out there. I have removed everything that I am aware of is his. BTW, he sent me the content before and I keep all my email, so I have that as proof that he gave me permission to put the posts up. He has now asked me to remove them, and I did. I wasn't planning on bringing this to anyone's attention as it is all in the archives, but when I reveived the email from him claiming that he would notify Blogger, I decided to put up a post to let people know in case for some bizarre reason Blogger did comply. I've asked Kevin to provide me with what he believes is left so I can remove it as well, but he has not replied. 3:11 PM Anonymous said... if matrixsynth goes down then someone needs to get their ego in check 3:26 PM frederic gerchambeau said... I do love Matrixsynth and I do appreciate Kevin Lightner.
We all do.
We need BOTH of them.
So, you two, stop fighting.
Shake hands.
HERE and NOW.
Please do that.
Anger is a bad angel. 3:30 PM Anonymous said... is the poster "Fountain of Filth" lightners wife?
looks like someone got the evil eye, lol! 3:44 PM matrix said... For the record, I would be more than happy to. I've done everything Kevin has requested which again has taken me hours. Imagine having to go into the archive of this site and update and republish one post at a time. Blogger does not have a simple search and replace or bulk editing. I had search for his name and site and then manually take care of every single post. It was extremely tedious and tiring and again, I did not have to do this!!! He sent me stuff and gave me permission. I have asked Kevin to send me what else he would like me to do and I have yet to hear back from him. Kevin, if you are out there, please let me know either via email or in the comments here. 3:48 PM Anonymous said... Am i missing something? Since when is Kevin Lightner important. Matrix Synth can post what he wants, and wont get sued. Internet Law is weak, especially in the world of Blogs. All matrix synth is doing is reposting items, why the big fear or concern. 3:55 PM Anonymous said... Lightner needs to stop whining and go back to his reselling bullshit. 3:56 PM Anonymous said... Who,s Lightner and who cares? I read matrix synth, and dont really care about this retard thats whinning and wanting to sue. 3:57 PM Anonymous said... Kevin lightner is a grumpy old prick, I am a millionaire lawyer btw and I think I might sue K. Lightner for personal damages against Matrix for causing him undue stress.
KEVIN LIGHTNER IS A COCK SUCKER 4:34 PM Anonymous said... Get a grip, they are just synthesizers not nuclear secrects you both sound very childish, honestly most people who look at this site couldn't care less who or where the info comes from they just enjoy the content, it seems like a clash of egos to me. 4:38 PM Chris said... If we wan't this to be the first post to reach 100 Here is some helpful tips.
How To Participate In An Internet Flame War
1. Tell your opponent that the argument is over, because it's degenerated into pointlessness.... doing so at the end of your post giving you the lengthy last word in it. 2. Predict the imminent death of the Internet. ("Film at 11!") 3. Call your opponent a Nazi. 4. Change the subject by pointing out all of your opponent's grammar and spelling mistakes. 5. Post some horribly vicious and insulting note about your opponent.... several minutes later, post a profuse apology, claiming that you'd intended to send the message privately to a friend. 6. a: Refer frequently to pretend hordes of lurking supporters, who have mailed you privately to express their agreement and gratitude.... but aren't willing to come out publicly and say anything. (See also here.)
b: Accuse your opponent of trying to intimidate your hordes of supporters.... add indignantly that you "will not be silenced".
7. Attempt to impress/silence your opponent by discussing your professional credentials and experience related to the topic at hand, which clearly make your opinions better and more correct than anyone else's.... be vague about details if your credentials and experience aren't actually all that impressive. (Also known as "dueling resumes".) 8. Accuse your opponent of being overly sensitive, or suggest in a patronizing tone that they "must be having a bad day". 9. Claim that an insult or other rudeness was "just a joke", and suggest that your opponent has no sense of humor. 10. Claim that *everything* is a matter of opinion, that there are no such things as facts or truth. 11. a: Claim that facts are absolute.... that there's never any such thing as dispute or disagreement about a fact.
b: Assume that everything you learned in college, no matter how many years ago nor how much a field has advanced in the meantime, is completely unchanged.
12. Redefine words to mean whatever you want them to mean. (Also known as the "Humpty Dumpty" defense.) 13. Refuse to look something up, if challenged to do so.... no need, surely your memory is perfect. 14. Ask your opponent to supply lengthy and detailed references for their every statement. 15. Claim that if something works for you/your spouse/your kid/your parent/your best friend/your boss/your hairdresser's first cousin's dog's veterinarian, it will always work for everyone.... and if it doesn't, it's because they're not doing it right.
Due to the current debate I thought I shoul include this bit.......
(Author is Barbara Petersen, with help from Elizabeth Shapere.... please feel free to submit your own additions for the list, should inspiration strike you, or if you spot an important 'Net flame war principle I've left out.)
Let that be the last word on the matter !!!! 4:49 PM Awakened Yeti said... What i dont fucking get is whats so special about these particular words that makes Kevin so upset about you posting them? To the point of threatening legal action? Is there some kind of slander? Will his business suffer due to it?
Im with the "nuclear secrets" guy... just WTF is the big damn deal about this shit that its so important to remove in the first place? 5:07 PM JZ said... Matrix, you get all my support, you always credit everyone, and I have a lot of fun with your blog. 5:24 PM Anonymous said... Nothing new... KL has problems everywhere. We had similar action on Analog Heaven. This guy is so full of himself as if he is doing magic. I am surprise he did not give you his spiel of how much worth his time is!!!! 5:56 PM Madame Curie said... Fuck Analogue Heaven ... it was pretty good ten years ago when there was a west-coast contingent keeping it somewhat lively.
Someone said Lightner is one of the most important people in the synth world? How so? That's like saying D.A.C.Crowell or any of the other AH ass-buddies ever made anything resembling music. 8:05 PM SonicBrat said... No... Don't shut this site off ever!!! My life will crash!!! It's a synth hub for me... :(
Make peace... I am sure something can be sorted out. I don't think it's time to take sides... I love Matrixsynth site, I respect Mr Lightner for his invaluable works... So it's painful for a fan to see things get heated up...
I am sure Matrix gives credit duely... If anyone is unhappy about it I think Matrix will do something about it... and he is...
Thank you for the daily dolsage so synth mantra!!! 8:24 PM matrix said... Fair use: link.
Considering: 1. I originally only posted what Kevin either sent me to post or sent me and did not tell me not to post. (I save every single email BTW). As you know I am very into nostalgia
2. I went out of my way to remove every single item of Kevin's that I am aware of and will remove whatever else that is his and he asks me to remove.
3. Fair Use Law
I think I am safe on that front. I think Kevin is pissed that I put up this post, but I believe I am covered under freedom of speech, I have his email as proof that I'm not making this stuff up, and at the time I panicked and actually thought I better get this post up before Blogger takes the site down. I'm still a bit frazzled over this experience. What really pisses me off is I lost time with my daughter tonight because of this!!!!
I have a lawyer in the family and will check with that person next.
BTW, thanks to the person that sent me the fair use link. One of the huge weights just lifted off my shoulders. 8:29 PM Anonymous said... Watching you guys play lawyer with one another is hilarious. 8:45 PM shoontz said... Kevin I've worked as a freelance illustrator for over a decade, and have been delivering my work by e-mail for about the last five years. In that time the most important lesson I've learned is; an e-mail sent isn't always an e-mail received.
I used to get pissed off when I wouldn't here back from someone I'd e-mailed, and usually assumed that they were jerking me around. However, I've learned through many personal experiences that e-mail is at best a fickle beast, and if something is truly important or urgent nothing beats a good old fashioned phone call.
I hope that you can put aside your anger Kevin and give Matrix a call like morechampagneformybats suggested. I'm sure once you hear Matrix's voice you'll wonder how this ever went so far. 8:48 PM Wiglaf said... Oh brother.
Matrix: Ignore KL. Keep on blogging. The blogger.com TOS states clearly that what you post is under your control. They take no responsibility. For anything. You can post whatever you want. 8:59 PM burstgenerator said... ...i like sprinkles with my ice cream. 9:21 PM Chris Muir said... From my (albeit limited) interactions, I think that Matrix is an honorable guy.
KL seems very prickly.
The flames on this thread were then fanned via anonymous comments. I would turn them off, if I was running things. If someone can't be bothered to create a fake account to post their inflammatory verbiage, is it really worth having it posted? 9:25 PM Fountain of Filth said... Yes, I am Kevin's wife. I'm not sure if he's still reading the thread.
I still maintain my position: This is the silliest thing I've seen from the vintage synth world.
Sillier than--
*someone on AHOT stealing a topless pic of me and posting it on his mp3.com site.
*a salesman with no synth experience from Ohio deciding "he's the one that started it all."
*someone claiming they could put a Moog 55 on a circuit board.
*people claiming DCO's are analog.
It's going to take a long, long time before the vintage synth community can come up with something sillier than this! 9:40 PM Tyler said... I think I love Mrs. Lightner!
...analog DCO's, bah! 10:26 PM Anonymous said... Who the fuck is Kevin Lightner ??? 11:28 PM leper mclimb said... there has to be some cool synth shit going on at this very minute, as you, good reader are taking the time to read this, we could just as easily be marveling at this: www.curetronic.de 12:24 AM Tom said... I'm 100% behind you Matrix.
If Kevin doesn't want publicity, don't give it to him.
Around 10-8 years ago, people like Kevin put in a tonne of work collecting synth material and putting it on the internet.
Today, people like you (and to a much lesser extent me) put in a tonne of work collecting synth material and putting it on the internet.
I hope to hell that in 2016 I'm not sitting around bitching because someone is reading and recycling old Music Thing posts.
Kevin is obviously a genius of synth repair, and if I ever had the money to use his services, I'm sure he'd be grateful.
But if you look in the Wayback Machine: HERE, it's clear that Synth Fool as a website has got very little content now that wasn't there in 1997-1998.
The history of the site is interesting - when it closed down in 2000, Kevin said one of the reasons was: " 4. Exposure Most people have already seen what synthfool has to offer. Indeed, tons of folks have already taken photos from the site, so future interested parties shouldn't have too much trouble finding them on the web." 3:47 AM Tom said... Also, I've just removed the permanent Synthfool link from Music Thing - I wouldn't want any of my visitors to get sued themselves... 4:00 AM corky burger said... Keep up the good work Matrixsynth. 5:47 AM Tom said... "if I ever had the money to use his services, I'm sure he'd be grateful."
Sorry, that was a typo. I meant to say "I'm sure I'd be grateful". Because I would, if he rescued some beautiful old synth for me. 6:28 AM Anonymous said... Hello there, all this issue it's so sad.... Internet for me mostly is a source of information, and matrixsynth is a great source, tying the knowledge together. Kevin Lightner is a man with great knoweledge about vintage synths and their technology. So, we need both of you, you could short it out by phone maybe, away from this ridiculous anonimity. As for the others who talk dirty about people that had never met in person, I have to say that it's not right and not so brave to abuse behind a screen, a keyboard and this anonimity wall. SO PLEASE MAKE PEACE, WE NEED YOUR KNOWLEDGE!! Sorry for the bad Engish. Nikos Triantafillou-Greece. 7:03 AM Anonymous said... i think i understand the underlying cause of the problem here. as an amateur shrink, i think its that kevin lightner realizes matrix is becoming a bigger synth hero than he ever was or ever could be. matrix does this out of the kindness of his heart yet kevins activities seem to be to boost his ego and his business. this isnt to say kevin hasnt been helpful, but its coming from somewhere else. think about it... matrix removed a post that revealed his last name. this isnt about ego at all for him, hed rather stay anonymous! its about his love of synths and his desire to share it with us all... and give us something else to do while our employers are paying us to work. all praise matrixsynth, and protect him from any evil forces of the vintage synth universe! ;) 9:20 AM Anonymous said... This blogger post is obviously designed to harm Mr Lightner's goodstanding reputation and business.
I hope he sues the pants off you. I bet Hans Zimmer is a big fan of your blog now. 9:57 AM Anonymous said... Matrix — there's a phone number in your email inbox. you should call it. 11:06 AM Anonymous said... "This blogger post is obviously designed to harm Mr Lightner's goodstanding reputation and business.
I hope he sues the pants off you. I bet Hans Zimmer is a big fan of your blog now."
Yes, its a conspiracy...we're all in league with Hans Zimmer to ruin Kevin's reputation. Did you miss the meeting last week or what???!
Hilarity. 11:07 AM Anonymous said... There's obviously too many hours in a day - we're all spiteful people and we have nothing better to do with our precious time than actively try to harm KL. What a fookin idiot! 11:19 AM Anonymous said... I've said it before and I'll say it again, who the fuck is Kevin Lightner ???
By all accounts he repairs synths.
He lists a load of "big" names on a site that lacks any order or value. I'm sure that all of those "big name" individuals approached Kevin personally, not.
Bill Wyman, former bass player with the Rolling Stones lives near to me and his housekeeper called my friend (a car valeter) to come and valet some of Bills collection. Given Kevin Lightner's rule of name dropping, my mate could have put "Valeter to the stars, including Bill Wyman of The Stones" on his business card but he chose not to, respecting the individuals privacy and knowing full well it meant jack shit.
Going around boasting about the famous people you have allegedly "worked" for is the form of an individual whose ego needs a lot of self inflating. Empty vessels make the most noise.
Fight The Power Matrix :o) 12:21 PM hans zimmer said... this reminds me of the time when kevin tried to put my name on his 'clients' list. i made him take it down. i don't even know the guy 2:52 PM adam s said... I strongly suggest you implement something along the lines I suggested in this post.
The anonymous motherfuckers really bug the shit out of me and I don't think they necessarily have the right to go unidentified (at least by association to other comments).
I'm shocked that as I read all 88 of these comments matrix had put up a few more posts! That's dedication.
I have no opinion about this bullshit except that it's great fun to read. I do hope for matrix's 3:04 PM adam s said... ... sake it all ends soon 3:05 PM adam s said... Highly suspicious of the "Hans Zimmer" commnet.... 3:19 PM bubblebunz said... I guess this sort of thing is inevitable. You just need to organise a way of zapping content quickly if something personal like this arises. I've enjoyed this blog immensely over the last 6 months or so. Thanks for all your work. 4:30 PM matrix said... I heard back from my lawyer contact. I am in the clear. I did absolutely nothing wrong and apparently I can even put the email up if I want. I can put up all the emails we exchanged. You can't copyright an email, and even with Kevin asking me not to post it I can. If you could copyright email everyone would be suing everyone. I also could have left all the content up if I wanted to. I wasted a lot of time and went through a lot of stress over this one and I am done. Spent. Over and out. On to blogging and letting this one go. Even though the legal threat is over, I'm still a little tweaked out by the experience. I was really tempted to put the email back up but my lawyer contact and a few of you out there recommended I let this one go. I plan to do just that. Hopefully Kevin (or anyone else out there) will never do this to someone else. It's abusive and it is NOT RIGHT! Legal threats are always to be taken seriously unless you are a complete idiot. Who wants to have to worry about that sort of thing? Thanks for the stress and time lost Kevin. 4:36 PM matrix said... Note on the anonymous comments. A LOT of great stuff comes in via the anonymous comments and I personally hate having to sign in to just comment on a site, so I'm leaving them up. My recommendation? Ignore the idiot posts or better yet, get a laugh out of them! Some of them are quite funny. : ) Never take them seriously because if someone talks trash via an anonymous comment there is no validity there. You have no idea if they are tolling, or if they are the same person immitating others, so just let it go or have fun with it. If you look above you will see a lot of supportive anonymous posts. Why would I want to silence them? And for the record I have never and will never post anonymously on this site. I don't post trash and I have a lot of respect and tolerance for other people's opinions. BUT. I WILL REMOVE HATEFUL ANONYMOUS COMMENTS, porn, or whatever I feel warrants a removal. If you do not want to risk your comment being removed sign up for an account and post with that. 5:08 PM Anonymous said... I won't ever do business with Kevin now. Not that he'd ever have time to do business with a no name like me, but anywaze...
But Matrix, I think your lawyer got the email thing wrong. It's not a copyright issue, it's kind of like recording a phone call. You need consent of both parties in some places. So I wouldn't go around posting email disputes freely, as entertaining as they may be to some people. 5:12 PM matrix said... BTW, if you post anything that qualifies as Porn or Hate crime (think racial or sexual discrimination), I will remove it regardless of whether it is anonymous or not. It's my Blog and I nave the right to remove that if I want to. If I didn't Blogger wouldn't let me remove comments. Think about that. If you question my judgment when it comes to removing comments, just look at what I left up above and in other threads. 5:13 PM matrix said... Actually, the lawyer is pretty well versed. It this case it was a no brainer. I can put them up. Hopefully I will never have reason to. 5:19 PM Anonymous said... Well then put them up. 5:28 PM Anonymous said... One more post and that will be the 100th! Where's that button? 5:29 PM hans zimmer said... i'm a big fan of your blog now! nevermind, i'm suing. strike that, big fan! 5:50 PM Anonymous said... no, email you can share it is not like a recording, it's like a letter-- someone mails you a letter, they have already RECORDED their words, it is nows yours to do what you want with, they have essentially given ownership to you. No matter what disclaimers they have on their emails.. that's meaningless unless you both agree and sign a contract to that effect. Just adding conditions to the end of an email actually doesn't make it law. Companies do that all the time, but it's pretty much meaningless unless you work for them and value your job, and possibly agreeing to those terms anyway. 5:57 PM Anonymous said... kevin lightner's minimoog is up for sale!? wait, no it's not... & apparently, it never was. 6:16 PM rekem1000 said... Hey burstgenerator, what kind of icecream? 7:51 PM JSRockit said... I love popeye! 9:07 PM Fountain of Filth said... Geez, this gets sillier every time I read it!
BTW, I did recently sell a Minimoog on eBay (I handle parts sales and ebay stuff). The new owner is very happy with it. 9:23 PM jan hammer said... i really don't appreciate hans zimmer & kevin lightner conspiring to use me for publicity. it's just... despicably duplicitous! 9:46 PM other! said... This post title would make a good song title...
Hey my verification word is "kweiv"!
BTW, I could use some 2600 sliders. Anybody know where I could get some?
These comments via a sample and hold on my brain.
How do I DIN sync that?
I'd by that MooG 55 if it had MIDI!
Free transistors at Fairchild.com - check it out! Why buy them!
I think I ran ou 10:02 PM other!!1 said... t
Oh yeah, I need some 30 year old used 1/8 jacks too!
Now my verifcation word is "ffjkbgi". What type of word is that???!!! I liked "kweiv" better! It reminds me of the bridge over the river kweiv! No, no, my older brother Kweivie! No, no it has some thing to do with the illuminati I'm sure of it! Bad dog Spot! Now I'll have to send you to OBIK!!! Oh crap, now KIBO has to post to this thread...what have I done???? 10:08 PM other!!!111 BIFF said... 12345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890XXXXX DON'T GO INTO THE X'S !!!!!
^L ^L ^L ^D ^D ^D . exit stop bye ^C ^Z !sh !ed /exit quit q /quit ~x help help stop !help logout $signoff write sysop "how do i stop this ???" psot post ^P^O^S^T
Yea! the word of the day is "nupyyr". I like nuppyr. "It's such a friendly sounding word. It sounds like a nickname. 'Hey, Tits, come here. Tits, meet Toots, Toots, Tits, Tits, Toots.' It sounds like a snack doesn't it? Yes, I know, it is, right. But I don't mean the sexist snack, I mean, New Nabisco Tits. The new Cheese Tits, and Corn Tits and Pizza Tits, Sesame Tits Onion Tits, Tater Tits, Yeah. Betcha can't eat just one." (c) George Carlin.
Whoa! Those pics from Amos gave me a flashback to the 60's!!! Baliff, whack his.. 10:22 PM other1 said... Sorry, this part was (c) James Kibo Parry:
12345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890XXXXX DON'T GO INTO THE X'S !!!!!
^L ^L ^L ^D ^D ^D . exit stop bye ^C ^Z !sh !ed /exit quit q /quit ~x help help stop !help logout $signoff write sysop "how do i stop this ???" psot post ^P^O^S^T
But not this part: xppmgf!
Must be some sort of Xwindows utility! 10:25 PM Anonymous said... http://web.archive.org/web/20000620123359/http://www.dennishoulihan.com/
I guess Lightner's come a long way from not wanting to sue people.
Excuse me, _internet sue_ people. 10:31 PM hans hammer said... being the illegitimate love-child of hans zimmer & jan hammer, i can tell you all w/ some authority that they're both big fans of this blog now. 11:00 PM hans hammer said... forgot about my webpage plus 11:02 PM jan zimmer said... hans hammer, you little shit. everyone knows kevin lightner is the true heir to the throne of hans & jan senoir. 11:05 PM jan zimmer said... my dads say kevin lightner is a leper. 11:12 PM matrix said... BTW, I just realized I thanked everyone that sent me email but not here. Thanks for all the support everyone. It meant the world to me.
cheers, matrix 8:36 AM Shanksy said... I saw this post yesterday and being a somewhat ponderous person I spent the evening holding my chin and squinting one eye slightly. The only conclusion that I can come to is that Matrix has done the right thing.
Kevin is somewhat well known in synth circles, and has used Matrix's blog in the past to seemingly promote both himself and his service (in my opinion). Matrix on the other hand is some anonymous guy (I presume a guy - no woman would go for this color scheme), who continuously shares some great stuff he comes across, and clearly spends a lot of time adding content to this blog just for the love of it, and he does a great job of it.
Kevin - It's my understanding that your emails and comments are public domain once you send them, you have no legal right to ask for them to not be published, or to have posts edited after the fact other than as a personal favor from Matrix - which Matrix appears to have done. Some might view your legal threats as the actions of a bully.
Matrix, thank you for this blog, and for dealing with this thing in a really transparent and mature way - you've gone up in my estimation considerably. 8:56 AM Anonymous said... i asked kevin about this. he has quite another story about it. he showed me things you're not mentioning. with respect to his proven track record of helping people, id rather believe him. you look like a real prat to me now matrix. 11:46 AM Anonymous said... I think someone needs a plank of wood strapped to their arse to stop them from disappearing up Mr Lightner's already enlarged asshole ! 12:33 PM Anonymous said... Kevin has not written anything bad about you. Aren't you making everything worse with this post and "more_docs_on_synthfool" in the URL bar? It appears you are taunting him and trying to ruin his business.
One thing is for sure. Kevin has a lot more class and credibility than you. Talent too.
I think you are just jealous of him. What have you done for anyone except copy and paste? 12:42 PM Anonymous said... Exactly. Cutting and pasting from AH, VSE, and Ebay isn't creating a damn thing. People are really stupid now - they think DJs are musicians too. 1:34 PM Anonymous said... Kevin Lightner and his fanboys should carry on repairing synths that used to belong to someone whose name we can't remember anymore and just get on with it. I'm sure they're very good at it.
What they should stop doing is using innocent individuals to massage their egos and create a false sense of achievement via their innocent passion for the technology.
The real "movers and shakers" in this industry are nameless and unsung. They do not require the attention like the Kevin Lightners of this world. They do what they do and do it for the love of it, not the attention and faux adulation they nurture and receive.
Only flimsy lightweights who are worried about the fragility of the fake reputations they have built need to sling threats of litigation over the internet. Trust me, if someone was serious about a legal action, they would do it in the utmost privacy, as any public flaunting would seriously jeopardise their chances of success. Those that make these threats in public are shamelessly seeking attention and recognition for their fake cause.
It don't wash with me and a shit load of others, sonny Jim.
I pity those hangers on who feel that an association with Kevin Lightner is something really cool. It's anything but. He's a repairman. Do you suck up to the cable guy as much ??? 2:05 PM Anonymous said... I guess you think Kevin got into synths for the big money and ego? I've seen his work and other techs just don't do what he does.
"The real "movers and shakers" in this industry are nameless and unsung."
You must be a big mover and shaker. 4:39 PM Mark G. said... Cable guys can be taught in a day. Where's all the other good vintage techs if it's so easy and there's a fan club waiting? 4:43 PM Anonymous said... "People are really stupid now - they think DJs are musicians too."
no, we all know the real musicians horde vintage synths and argue about them on mailing lists, right? 6:15 PM Carbon111 said... Wow. I finally checked out this post. Very sad :(
I think this reveals a lot of pathology on KL's part. I'm very disappointed...used to respect Kevin. I mean there's manic and then there's MANIC...pretty obvious where some of the "anonymous" posts are coming from...same tone, same diction. 6:23 PM Kevin Lightner said... Seems there's opinions being formed on insufficient data.
Here's what you don't apparently don't know....
http://www.synthfool.com/matrix.html
That's all I'll write. Some of you will believe anything you read anyways. Disappointed in you, Carbon. :( 9:10 PM Carbon111 said... Wow...Kevin, you have completely misuinderstood Matrix - his personality, his intent and his motives. You have no idea how sad this all is. 9:43 PM Anonymous said... as with any legal matter - and i do have some authority - there are 3 sides or more to every story. quite a complicated set of facts. the original complaint that started this thing off was merely a complaint and didn't constitute anything actionable. linking to someone's site certainly wont get you into trouble. as far as copyrighted material, sure, you could argue that using it is illegal, but when you add the various haphazard attempts at mitigating his liability, matrix still ends up making a strong showing for trying to find a solution. as far as reputation and the like ( i assume kevin alludes to some sort of defamation action ), the nature of the opinions, and versions of facts in this case have been represented as such both impliedly and explicitly. at least, a cursory glance at the stuff here in the "comments" section would indicate that. as far as the emails, yeah, that stinks that someone wants to take that public, maybe bad taste, but it'd be tough to make a case for anything. i mean, if a guy wants to run something he is scared of by a few thousand of his closest friends for an opinion, he can probably get away with it, considering the inherently community nature of a blog. everyone sitting around rapping about this thing and that. the comment section is for opinions - and they may vary and be hurtful, or damaging, but may not be defamation.
i urge you all to take a long hard look at this:
http://www.eff.org/bloggers/lg/
it's the electronic frontier foundation's legal guide for Bloggers -
anyway, i agree with everyone that has expressed a need to move on. this is ridiculous, and it is not worth kevin or matrix's time to let it go on.
kevin has posted his version of the facts with opinion and matrix has been on and off doing the same. we all get a sense of both sides, their motives, and their character.
we'll all make our own decisions. seriously...i think you should bury the hatchet. no one should sue anyone.
if either/both sides is/are concerned about reputation and their career/business interests, they would be best served by privately and publicly ending this with apologies on both sides, regardless of the other sides perceived sense of "guilt" or "innocence" and get back to doing the things you were before.
both of you rely on references, communication, and integrity to succeed in your endeavors, and name-calling, finger-pointing, and threats are the worst threats to your integrity and character in this matter. 10:51 PM Failed Muso said... The saddest thing here in all actuality is the terrible indictment on society and its desire to resolve everything via litigation or the threat of it. It seems nowadays that all you have to do is fart really bad, and someone will sue you for distress, mental anguish and an assualt on the nose !
Seriously though, why do people need to resort to bandying around legal threats to exert their will ? What happened to an extended dialogue between grown individuals who really should know better ?
I've been following this thread closely as I consider Matrix to be a good "virtual" buddy. We don't talk much, but when we do he has come across as nothing but friendly, altruistic and an intelligent individual. His blog has long been a favourite of mine and we cross pollenate each other by links to our posts all the time. In my opinion, Matrix merely provides a blog for fans of electronic music and the tools used to create it. He makes no financial gain from it. He also makes no ego gain, as he remains totally anonymous. I don't even know what his name is !
People like Matrix, and other music tech bloggers like myself and Music Thing just enjoy the material and the discussion that ensues and if anything, we are a source of free advertising for many people. I would never have found so many people had I not been reading MatrixSynth or MusicThing. They are the portal and will generate loads of hits and hopefully some business for all those people too. I have received many emails from manufacturers who have received redirected traffic to their site from mine, thanking me for the support. I don't do it to get freebies or discounts, I do it because if I like something, I think there are probably many others who might like it too. What we do, as music tech bloggers, is provide a free service that is symbiotic with developers and other associated industries. The power of the internet is strong and many people can benefit from a peaceful and co-operative co-existence.
Sadly though, there is a down side. The internet is full of people who all have an opinion and all believe it is their inalienable right to share that opinion. As Winston Churchill once said, "No one has a right to an opinion, but everyone has a right to an informed opinion". And that's the real difference here. Out of the 130 posts on this thread alone so far, the vast majority are anonymous, indicating that those opinions are totally uninformed and merely troll baiting and flaming. Many of those posts are arguing points of law and only one or two are anywhere close (I work in the industry so have a good understanding). Each side seems to have it's supporters and detractors in equal measure. There have been a handful of sensible and logical posts, all of which have come from "named" individuals, which again adds weight to my previous argument.
Ultimately, the only damage caused by this, is damage to the reputation of the community. Matrix will continue to blog, Mr Lightner will continue to repair synths. We can argue the merits of each until we are blue in the face, but no one has lost anything other than a bit of face, maybe.
Let's all move on, put it all to one side and just carry on doing what we all do best. 1:01 AM Anonymous said... Sorry Matrix, but you are quite simply full of shit on this one.
And that would also include any of those people who are questioning Kevin's character.
I've known Kevin Lightner for about 15 years now and have NEVER experienced any of the negative things you're claiming.
It's amazing to me that the people here (who are mostly relative newbies - let's be honest) are questioning Kevin's credibility.
As far as I'm concerned, Matrix, you really don't do ANYTHING but try to come off as someone important by posting links to other people's information.
Not very important, if you ask me.
Whereas Kevin has been PROVIDING information and content for many, many years.
All I can say is LAY OFF.
Take down any references to the content that he created.
And maybe DO something for yourself, instead of just pointing out what other people do. 11:35 AM Christopher Cox said... Amen!
It's so easy to talk crap about people you know nothing about. So easy to pick and chose what you want to believe and what to ignore.
But in the end, people remember people that have skill and help others. You seem to have none of these attributes, Matrix. You should be ashamed for calling out someone that does. 11:48 AM Anonymous said... I'd also point out that I've been the recipient of a lot of Kevin's generosity over the years.
I couldn't count the number of instances in which he's given me the benefit of his VAST technical knowledge on both hands!
So again, I see two sides here, but one of them is actually contributing to the synth community (and has for years) in real life.
And the other, well...isn't.
You're a software guy, right?
Would it be okay for me to take any of your code and provide it to other people as long as I remove any comments that may identify it as yours? 12:01 PM R. Hanna said... In reading the commments presented here there appears to be those that get what Kevin Lightner does and those that haven't a clue. Here's a thought...if you don't get what Kevin does, pass on the speculation and move on. I thought I had an idea what Matrix was trying to achieve here with his blog. Now I'm not so sure. And yes, I would have a problem with it if I was selling something online and suddenly found my pictures and text posted on this blog without permission. 12:43 PM Anonymous said... Matrix- What do you hope to gain? Kevin has been a great supporter to the entire synth community. He has helped me out many times with resources and advice. This blog is a waste of energy if it's just a smear campaign. I think defamation of character happens way too much these days. People feel much safer to do it online, because the consequences seem to be none. If this were on print media, you would have some problems. Search your heart. Peace, Paul 12:52 PM matrix said... I'm not sure what I should do. Much of what Kevin put up in his version is true, but in hindsight, much of it was probably a misunderstanding. When he asked me to remove all references to him, his site or his content I did minus a few posts that I would have to completely take down. Kevin was upset about me removing one of his comments as he has clearly stated. In the emails he made it clear that he is absolutely opposed to removing comments. So I removed all references to him and took down any without comments in them, but left up the posts with comments. Instead of taking them down I changed via Kevin to via an anonymous reader, until I heard back from him. And again, for the record, I did not have to take anything down.
Kevin asked me to remove content on 11/14/06 at 11:57PM. I stayed up until 1:00 AM removing content and then followed up the next day. I sent email to Kevin asking him what he wanted me to do with the posts that had comments at 9:23 AM on 11/15/06. I received an undeliverable (posted above) and figured great, he just blocked my account. So I decided to wait to hear back from him. I then received an email from him titled "Legal notice" on 11/16/06 at 10:21. I keep all emails. Note this is one day. In the email he mentioned Blogger would be notified, so I immediately put this post up to let readers know what happened if the site went down. I am not a legal expert. I'm just some guy that likes synths and posts about the stuff he comes across. I also had a LOT of respect for Kevin, so when I received Kevin's email I took it very seriously. It really freaked me out.
Note that I have said nothing to defile Kevin's character. Read this post, and my comments in it. This is all about me not wanting to get sued and freaking out over the email Kevin sent me. That's all. He is still the greatest synth tech out there, or at least I think he is. This post isn't meant to take that away. You cannot deny Kevin's technique and reputation as a synth tech. If I wasn't me and I needed my synth repaired, I'd go to him hands down. This post isn't about that.
This post is about the legal threat instigated by Kevin and me trying to protect myself. I now realize I was safe all along, which is unfortunate. Had I known that I would never have put this up.
This post is also not about me vs. Kevin and who you agree with more. We all have differences of opinion on things. Kevin did not agree with me removing comments I found to be particularly distasteful. He has every right to disagree with that and I'm sure many of you would disagree as well. My only recommendation is to not pick sides. I am not asking anyone to.
And for the record, I am not an employee of Microsoft. : )
This just reminds me of how long we have been in contact with each other. I really had and to some extent still have a tremendous amount of respect for Kevin.
1:53 PM Delete 1:56 PM The Volt per Octaves said... Knowing Kevin personally, this discussion upsets me.
All I will say is that Kevin and his wife are both great people and always willing to help...
I can honestly say that Kevin's work is amazing, as he brought by Mini back from the graveyard. So whether or not you know Kevin or his work, take it from me - There is no other synth tech on his level. (Rudi Linhard is way up there too !)
So for people to accuse Kevin of shotty work or lying about his clientel (past and present) is just wrong...
But to stick to the theme here :
Whatever the laws say, I think emails that are supposed to be confidential, should remain that way. Whenever I see that disclaimer on an email, I take it very seriously. We all should..
Now lets stop the name calling and get back to synth lovin' ... 2:14 PM Wes said... Kevin and I have known each other for about 15 years now. You could, on one hand, consider us competitors. On the other hand, you can consider us as friends. Though we have never met face to face, we have shared many similar experiences in our field. When I need something special, I know I can turn to him. When he needs the same, he knows he can turn to me. In the synth world, we both have our followings. In the end, we are just two guys trying to provide for our families.
Kevin and I certainly would have something to gain by trying to deal with each other differently than we do. We choose not to. I have absolutely no reason to believe that he would treat anyone else differently than he treats me. He has time and again provided information to the synth community. I can certainly understand when comments like:
"9. I actually did not have to remove any of his content. Seriously I didn't because he gave me the permission at the time. If he changes his mind later, that does not mean I have to go back and change it."
are made can upset the owner of the material. If Kevin tells you that you can use his car on Monday and then states that you cannot use it on Tuesday, you no longer have permission to continue to use it.
I will say that Kevin has earned and deserves my respect. I am surprised at those that jumped on the hate train so quickly, especially with so little supporting evidence.
Wes Taggart Analogics 5:44 PM matrix said... It would have been nice if Kevin let me know they were on loan. :) 7:45 PM matrix said... I can't answer why people jumped on Kevin, but my guess is it had something to do with the letter. I've also heard he's done the same to others before. He was pretty nice to me until he disagreed with me. If Kevin likes I can put the letter back up. I'd actually like to, but I haven't out of respect for him. 7:49 PM John Bezjian said... I just found this blog and was going to comment on the "Which Digital synth came first" on the home page I just saw. I'll go back and put my 2 cents there in a minute.
But first.... I ran across this thread regarding my good friend Kevin Lightner and just had to comment. (As much I really don't want to add any more fuel to this fire...)
After reading all the posts pertaining to this topic, I'll say upfront that I've known Kevin for at least 20 years.
For the record, In addition to playing and programming synthesizers, ( I got my first Moog Modular Synthesizer 12 in 1973), I've had the pleasure of working for Polyfusion as an endorsed artist for their modular synths in the 1970's, I was the Emulator III product specialist for E-mu Systems, in the late 1980's, US Sales Manager for Fairlight Instruments (Mfr. of the first digital sampling instrument, the Fairlight CMI) in the mid 1980's, in the late 1970's for the West Coast Distributor of the New England Digital Synclavier, in the early 1980's Moog Music, Inc. as the North East Representative. I have also taught several years of synth courses at UCLA Extension including the creation of the "Synthesis and Sound Design" course and the "A Complete Guide to Digial Sampling" course many years ago.
When I worked at Moog Music, Inc., I was involved with creating the "factory" programs for the Memorymoog in addition to my duties being the North East Representative for Moog.
I sold the Memorymoog, Source, Opus 3, Rogue and Taurus II synths to all the Moog dealers in the New England states of MA, NH, VT, ME, RI, and PA, NY & NJ from 1981 to 1984. I was hired to work at Moog by Herb Deutsch (co-inventor of the Moog Synthesizer with Bob Moog...without them we all wouldn't be here in the first place.) Thus my feeling compelled to give the historical lead in and my partial life story due to the comments about all us "old guys" from the anonymous poster regarding those "whose names we can't remember anymore" etc. that are speaking out on behalf of Kevin as people who have had their synths brought back to life by him.
I'm sure my name is unknown to most people as well, so who cares? I have made my living with synthesizers for over 30 years and I'm proud of that.
My point of boring you with all of the above being that I've been in this industry for a very long time as an artist, composer, programmer, salesperson, product specialist, etc. etc. I've seen quite a bit over the years.
Anyone that could slam Kevin on any technical level, call him a "just a repairman", or the "Do you suck up to the cable guy as much ?" comment has most likely never owned a vintage synth and had it wrecked by a hack that's called themselves a synth technician. The real techs are few and far between from my personal experience.
Kevin's expertise IS legendary. All the wannabe's that charge people a fortune for repairs that usually don't last more than a day or two after a synth is returned to them are probably jealous of his expertise. I've known many of them, good and bad, over the past 30+ years in this industry.
Saying that Kevin's "just another repairman" is total BS. Kevin doesn't just "fix" a synth when you send it to him. He RESTORES it. Ask anyone that's had a synth RESTORED by Kevin. There's very few, if ANY other techs that have his depth of knowledge and capability regarding many of the vintage synths the readers of this blog are interested in.
Kevin has created a wealth of materials, synth data, pics, etc. that he's shared over the years with many people all over the world and I don't think the unkind comments directed at him are deserved at all. 12:01 AM Anonymous said... A note to all. I thought the internet should all make us better at communication. This subject haved proved not. Much of what I have read here is obviously misunderstandings, trolling or wild guesses. I am very sorry to be reading many of these posts.
The faceless communication opens up a lot of new methods of hurting each other. We really need to learn to be polite at each other. Differences in opinion is no excuse for behaving badly.
I understand Matrixsynths desire to spread all and everything about synthesizers as quickly as possible. Enthusiasm is generally a good thing. There are times when you need to think for a second or two before acting, though. One such instance would be when dealing with someone who is working with synthesizers professionally, that is, making a living out of it. It is obvious that Kevin Lightner is a very professional synth technician, and a very good one too. His contribution into the synth community is highly regarded by many, and there is a good reason for this. Many on this blog has stated his profound knowlegde of synths that he generousily share with people. We really need to appreciate his effords, and take care of those who knows how to keep our beloved synths alive and well.
I have been dealing with Kevin Lightner several times over the last years, buying everything from a rare tiny components to a complete restored instrument (I am the owner of the color-changing minimoog). I have also asked many, many questions regarding synth details, and have always been given precise, correct and complete information in a friendly tone. Matrix, the owner of the blog, has stated that he still has a tremendous respect for Kevin LIghtner, and I really hope that all of you can share this statement.
Be nice. Behave.
My name is Terje Winther, and I write in anonymously (this is my first post ever on this blog) because I have not made an account. You could always read more about me at http://www.wintherstormer.no/
Thanks for reading. 6:43 AM Anonymous said... I struggle to believe that Mr Bezjian "just found this blog and was going to comment on the "Which Digital synth came first....But first.... I ran across this thread regarding my good friend Kevin Lightner and just had to comment."
To do that would have meant searching the archives as this post no longer appears on the front page ! Hardly "just ran across", more like "actively sought out this thread to big up ma homeboy!"
Looks like Kevin has rounded up some of his buddies/fanboys and got them to stick up for him ! 7:17 AM Anonymous said... I found this post the same way. I hit the nov 2006 link because its the 20th and the posts stopped at the 18th. Do you think all peoples just read the front page of the newspaper? It is dumb comments like yours that make me leave this place, even if it is neat. Even if true, I would like buddies like this person to stick up for me. Matrix has so much idiots like you already here. To work for 30 years with synths! That is so great. It is more important than dumb blogs like this. 7:31 AM Bilbo said... Don't you guys know there's an underground tech mailing list? All of these guys talk *and* they tell each other what customers to avoid. No joke. They give each other parts too and manuals. I know this is true. 7:37 AM Wes said... Kevin and I have a conference call every Monday at 12:00 Noon EDT to discuss how we are going to approach the analog synth community for the week.
We were both on the Grassy Knoll in Nov of '63.
Wes Taggart Analogics 9:44 AM spoonz said... Matrix
If you have upset Kevin then it must then it must be for good reason. He is one of the most helpful people i have come across in terms of his time and knowledge and not the least bit precious of stuff generally.
I think you crossed the line and an apology is due. Go one be a man
CV 10:33 AM matrix said... What's interesting about this comment is I think this is what it was all comes down to. I had a different opinion than Kevin. Kevin couldn't handle that, so he asked me to remove everything and before I could work with him on removing it all (just over one day folks) he threatens legal action to freak me out. Well it sure worked. I don't threaten legal action with people that have differing opinions than me and I don't ask them to apologize. I respect that because I am not them and I know people have different opinions and my ego isn't that big. 10:59 AM Roger Joseph Manning Jr. said... Hey all came across this discussion in my travels and felt compelled to say a few words on Kevin's behalf. I've known Kevin for at least the past 11 years now. Not only has he been there for me as a top nothch technician to my antique synth collection, but has seriously schooled me on these lovely dinosaurs as well. We've engaged in many a business transaction and I have never come away with feeling anything but that I was treated with the utmost respect and professionalism. On a personal note we get along great and share a very similar sense of humor. However I can remember one short incident that might be relevant here. About a year ago, after I sent out a mass e-mail to friends and family of a political nature, Kevin responded by bringing to my attention his frustration with my assumption that it was OK and not in the least bit rude to send one his way. Momentarily taken aback, we talked about this in detail. Long story short, I came to understand the error of my ways in my lack of respect towards others politcal/personal views and potential differences of opinion in that not everyone views the internet information vehicle that is e-mail in the same light. Kevin's was not the only e-mail that I later received of this nature as a result of my mass mailing. I appreciated Kevin expressing his discontent with my actions (as opposed to harbouring any ill will towards me) and as adults we ironed out the situation. I actually learned something in the process that serves me to this day in my interaction with friends, family and collegues. It has been my experience over the years that Americans, epecially, assume and take way too much liberty with respect to internet communication edicate, or lack thereof. Unfortunately it is an obvious symptom of how our culture conducts itself in the real, everyday world of physical interaction. On a grander scale we have forgotten or are simply ignorant of the basic virtues of respect, politeness, and dignity towards others in our personal interactions. And the musical community has been no exception. With the best of intentions for all concerned...thanks for giving me the opportunity to share my thoughts.
ROGER JOSEPH MANNING JR. 11:10 AM Anonymous said... Just a quick note. As someone who has contributed synth information on the net over the years, it continually dismays me to see information, pictures, etc of mine used unattributed. Recently, it's become more of a concern when I see private email reposted publicly - be it a blog, forum, or Usenet group. I think in the interests of wanting to disseminate information and be seen as an informed source, people are too quick to take ownership with asking first.
1. How to Identify Contacts Will Need Cleaning on a Minimoog
2. Brochures on Synthfool
3. The Hakko 470 Desolderer
4. Happy 10 Year Anniversary Synthfool!
5. MIDI Mini Video
6. Jupiter 8 Envs Tracked by an Apple II
7. Bad Caps
8. Why the white Arp Odyssey is not always "the better Odyssey"
9. Why a Moog Sounds like a Moog
10. More docs on Synthfool
That's 10 out of 4638 posts to date. Not many but some of them were indeed good ones. Note the compliment folks. But more importantly note that NONE of these were "personal emails." I challenge you or Kevin to post back with "the personal email" posts referred to. 12:50 PM Wes said... From your website:
NOTE: IF YOU SEND ME EMAIL YOU GRANT ME THE RIGHT TO POST WHAT YOU SEND
email: matrix Old Matrixsynth
I think anonymous is pointing out the paradox of your seemingly two points of view in the ownership of information. Your website seems to indicate that you claim sole ownership of any email sent to you. You can use the email in anyway you see fit, but others cannot. I think this is what he is pointing out. It certainly does not have a benevolent tone concerning personal information not intended for the general populous.
Wes Taggart Analogics 1:40 PM Maciek Polak said... It’s quite absurd when a person like my myself has to defend or vouch for such a name as Kevin Lightner, jumping into such a nasty thread, but enough bad press has been produced and I would not feel right not to comment.
You, dear chaps, come from deep within the very nest of Western culture and, most likely, never suffered from what can be called a mixure of prejudice and indifference, shown to people from ‘inferior’ countries. I come from one of such places and, somehow, have always found KL (and his wife, of course) as one of nicest persons in the analogue synth world. And, (hey, now curious !), have always received a timely and polite answer, even when not buying a SINGLE thing..
In the past, I have had so-called serious and verified sellers never bother to sign their emails with a full name, let alone reply in full to my detailed questions on their products, something very unlike the attitude of the Lightners.
If I know something, it’s that KL works his ass off to earn the money and credit he deserves. When somebody mentions Hans Zimmer (for the millionth time), just be fair enough to add that it takes a man with balls and huge skills to become his tech.
If you have a fight and can’t reconcile, do so but piss off and leave the public image of KL alone. Same goes to the guy dissing Analog Heaven. If you do not like it, unsubscribe. If you have never been a list member - piss off, too.
Maciek Polak, AH 2:50 PM matrix said... wes, I'm not sure what you are saying. Please elaborate. BTW, you can thank Kevin for the note on emails. I put it up after this happened. You wouldn't think someone would threaten legal action for content they asked you to originally put up. 3:19 PM Wes said... Layman's terms. I send you an email. Your statement leads one to believe that you now own the email and its contents. Legally, this is tenuous at best. Then let's say you post this email. At the bottom of your site is this (which anonymous was referring to):
(Ironically, I am copying this info from your website, so I am admittedly in violation of the above quote)
This would lead one to believe that they cannot copy the contents of their own email, based on your alleged copyright. Do you see the paradox?
You are saying that you gleen info from the Internet, use it (post it), and then do not want anyone else to use it as you just have.
If you don't want others to copy the code the is your website, that is completely understandable. It is your creation and rightly should be protected, if that is your desire (though based on your other actions I would think everything would be open sourced). The information that you are providing is either the personal property of others or public domain. In either case, you have no right to ownership. This is surprising in that I believe you are involved in the software industry. If so, you should have knowledge in the way this type of licensing works. If someone gives you a link to something they do not own, then yes, I think they may have a hard time telling you to retract. If it is something they own, then you have license to use until they retract. Again, if I let you borrow the car on Monday, it doesn't mean you have access to the car for life, no matter what my wishes are.
As far as Kevin goes, I do not have evidence one way or the other whether he threatened you legally. I haven't seen any documents and it really is a personal issue between the two of you. The issue for me is that there seems to have been some effort to skew points of views in this personal matter. The topic at the top of this blog speaks volumes. You took something that was private, and should have remained so between the two of you, and made it very public. That is the issue. None of us should have been privy to this matter.
Wes Taggart Analogics
PS Legally, stating that emails become your possesion does not make it so. That's like putting a sign on your lawn stating that you will hurt any person s stepping on the grass. I may actually keep some people off the lawn, but it doesn't legally make it so. If a lawyer tells you otherwise, get a new lawyer. 5:29 PM matrix said... Thanks Wes. Got it. Apologies for me not fully understanding at first. I agree it's lame that I had to put the email note up, but I don't want this to ever happen again. As for the Copyright, I put that up because another site was grabbing my site feed and reproducing it post for post. I've since switched to partial feeds so this is no longer an issue, but I left up the Copyright notice up regardless. BTW, I recommend you take a look at my archives when you get a chance. There's been this odd notion of me putting up personal emails. I don't. If you find any in the archives let me know. I want to be 100% transparent on all of this. You should ask Kevin to see the email he sent me. Again, if he gives the OK, I will put it back up so others can judge for themselves. 6:14 PM Anonymous said... As I asked earlier. What do you hope to gain from this? I sadly read more posts today. The title "Kevin Lightner Wants to Sue Me" tells a bigger story. I don't think it's his big desire to sue you. He's too busy working on synths. It' s really a title that avoids the real issue. What do you want, Matrix? Peace, Paul 12:56 AM Anonymous said... Kevin and co. should better consider it all as promotion... Before things turns out completely wrong!,just some advise...
Most will not understand this,but its not importand... 1:59 AM Harold Fitzgerald III said... Wow Kevin, you did stirr up the community pretty bad here. After reading your side of the story, I still cannot feel pitty for you. And how about that: making a "LEGAL NOTICE" private!!! How can that be? I thought legal documents are official documents and thus doesn't need to be treated as private content.
Let's face it, you had your reason but you had to do it in your arrogant way. Good thing they tucked you away from civilization. 4:18 AM Anonymous said... Hello again - first I want to apologize for posting the original copyright 2006 comment as anonymous. I don't have any problems having my name (Tom Moravansky) or my not-hard-to-figure-out-who-I-am alias (oldgearguy) associated with my statements.
Next - as far as private email goes, I seem to remember you seeing a link I had posted a few months ago to a picture of my Octopus and other hardware sequencers. You emailed me asking if it was OK to post the picture on your site and you also asked for my opinion comparing the features of the Octopus with the other hw sequencers.
Imagine my surprise when I wandered over to your site the day after that (for the first time) and saw not only my picture, but also my private email response posted.
Finally - I'll be in Redmond for two weeks in January. If you want to get together for a beer one evening and discuss stuff, that would be great. I'm from that older generation that used to communicate via letters, phone calls, and in person meetings. Seemed like it was easier to resolve disputes back in the day.
I still think you and Kevin should just make a phone call and talk it over. You both provide services on the net that are useful to different segments of the analog synth community and as such should attempt a more cooperative spirit. The community is very small and everyone knows everyone else. Spend time and energy to contribute and build up the community. Provide original content, create a resource that can be used to help care for, maintain, and use this old stuff.
Tom 4:54 AM matrix said... What do I want? I want Kevin to never do this to anyone else ever again. You have no idea how much stress it caused me and my family. If he does and you hear about it, point his next victim to this post. 11:16 AM synthbaron said... Then take this post down! What you two said in private was supposed to stay that way unless explicit permission was granted. Legalities be damned. You just keep prolonging the "stress" every minute this discussion remains up.
While Kevin may have acted childishly to begin with by asking for his content to be removed, you look as good right now as a bratty 2 year old going wild and crying about not having a TMX Elmo. 12:12 PM prosoloist said... Lightner thinks he is really special. I asked him a simple question on an ebay item and he was very rude and totally unprofessional. He may be THE synth god but he's certainly made an enemy here...actually a few. 12:55 PM prosoloist said... asked a question>>>> Hi, do you have any idea if these are used for the GLIDE control on a Mini?
answer >>>Dear sir, The nature of your email suggests that you are not not technically competent enough to service your Moog. We recommend that you have a qualified technician work on the synth, obtain parts, etc. Additionally, your ebay score received and many bad feedbacks given, disqualify you from bidding on our items. This notice, as well as the description of what these items are for, is clearly shown in our auction. Regards, Monica<<< it was actually Kevin that wrote the answer. I'm sure many of you here that are friends with him will side with him and/or say that the reply is justified. I was very offended by it for several reasons. First off, I am qualified to do mechanical and electrical work. Electronics? not exactly but a friend is and he is experienced with many synths. Secondly, I can buy the parts and have a tech put them in if needed. Thirdly, I have ONE negative feedback and it was in retaliation. Yes, I leave negative feedback when justified and so does Monica. This was just the beginning of our dispute. Again, I'm sure many will side with the high and mighty. Kevin, if you are going to reply here be sure to keep the text in the order they were sent and not chop them up. I've bought ARP Quadra parts from a seller that couldn't be nicer. Sent me pdf files that clearly show the different types of sliders needed 3:57 PM
3 comments:
Thursday, November 16, 2006
Kevin Lightner Wants to Sue Me
Take a look at what I received in email today. I've already removed all of his content minus this post which was sent my way via reed. Kevin was upset about me removing some comments including one of his from this post. If he actually does attempt to sue it will be interesting as it will open a new precedent for all bloggers out there. If anyone wants to chime in, please do. I will of course comply within the full extent of the law. Kevin, please send me what you want removed and I will look at it. I will remove any content that is specifically yours - words, pictures your name it. I'm putting this up in case people wonder where my blog went.
posted by matrix at 11/16/2006 12:06:00 PM
165 Comments:
Anonymous said...
Matrix, are you getting enough sleep?
12:13 PM
matrix said...
I missed that. : ) It's removed. I'm going to look into that statement about it being protected. Trust me. I don't think it is.
12:21 PM
Anonymous said...
Jeez. Apologize profusely to the man and do what he says. He is one of the most important people in the synth world, and often either contributes material or is the source from which you get material for your blog. If you didn't give him credit for his work, then he has every right to be mad. I don't know if he'll actually take legal action but it would be pretty bad for you if he does, in many ways.
P.S. as said before, posting an email that says "posting private emails is prosecuteable" at the end of it is probably not a good move.
12:23 PM
Anonymous said...
richard, play nice now.
12:24 PM
Anonymous said...
There is no such thing as privacy on the internet. You can post any email anyone has sent you at any time, even if they request it not be posted. If there is no implied privacy, so its is not illegal to post it.
As for images, HA, good luck with that lawsuit. How do you think websites like somethingawful.com have been around so long without getting sued?
12:25 PM
Kevin Lightner said...
I asked Matrix who gave him permission to use certain items and told him that I didn't appreciate him reposting every email we have as if it's for the public (as he's doing here.)
He then went and changed all the posts I submitted to "anonymous", keeping the content, but removing my credit.
He wouldn't reply to any emails either. (and still hasn't!)
But take a look for himself, this is how he deals with someone that simply ASKED who gave him permission.
He'll delete your posts, remove credits, but post your personal emails and keep your contents.
Please note that emails WITH a notice indicating privacy ARE protectable. It's done all the time in the legal and business world.
12:26 PM
morechampagneformybats said...
gotta give credit where credit is due to avoid making people mad, but on the other hand, this is a community with many common interests, and so i hope everyone settles down, apologies are given where due, and we can all get back to ingesting the steady stream of synth crack that we need to get through the day and night.
12:31 PM
Dave said...
Sorry to hear about all this & I hope you two can make peace soon. :o(
12:31 PM
morechampagneformybats said...
i should add that, you should give credit where credit is due, so you don't make people mad and want to sue...and so that you don't run afoul of the law...even if you fall under a fair use exception.
12:34 PM
matrix said...
Kevin, let me know what you want removed and I'll remove it. I spent hours removing what you asked me to remove all references to you and all content from your site which honestly wasn't much. This is not meant as a slight to you btw. I can remove the via anonymous comments for content that is not yours if you want me to as well. Just let me know as well.
12:34 PM
Lurker said...
I've lurked here for several months (great lunchtime reading!), and have read the archives.
Frankly, I don't understand why the anonymous post about the Moog Foundation was censored. I'm glad I read it before it was censored, because it does bring up a valid point. Kevin agreed with that post, and suddenly his many contributions to your blog are no longer welcome unless they're attributed to some unknown person?
Why post an e-mail that specifically told you not to post it? It only makes you look like a whiny child.
12:35 PM
matrix said...
morechampagneformybats, the problem is the opposite. Kevin wanted all his content removed along with any mention to him his name or his site. I had to REMOVE credit per his request. It's lame but that's what he asked me to do, so I did it.
12:35 PM
Anonymous said...
matrix, are you insane?
you removed his credits and did this?
why? he asked you a question and you treat him like this?
12:36 PM
morechampagneformybats said...
This post has been removed by the author.
12:36 PM
Kevin Lightner said...
There's tons of pics and copyrighted text still up there, but NO, I didn't ask for everything to be removed at first.
He ignored my email ASKING about the stuff.
Then he removed my posts and ignored an email about that too.
Finally I told him that if was going to remove my posts and comments, get rid of everything.
Again.. he ignored it.
So I sent a private letter which he reposted today.
That's the truth.
Dave, it could just as well of been you and your stuff.
Think about it.
12:43 PM
HZ said...
Some people have no class.
12:45 PM
Anonymous said...
When you're done shooting yourself in the foot, could you put up more synth posts?
Thanks
12:49 PM
morechampagneformybats said...
lotta anonymous douchebags adding fuel to the fire.
matrix, sorry i misunderstood the issue and sorry if you all caught the NERD post, but still, bottom line...sounds like the beef has been squashed or close to it. let's shake hands and move on.
sometimes people screw up, ignore a problem for a while, and then try to solve it incorrectly. sometimes people don't like the way communication is going and get threatening. it is never to late to resolve the issue nicely.
now that everyone has everyone else's attention, squash it.
kevin...totally valid complaint. matrix...maybe you didn't respond to kevin's friendly requests in a timely manner...simple enough...
maybe you guys should talk privately, telephonically?
you guys can hash it out...we'll all go get some beer and wings and wait till you guys git 'er done.
hopefully sooner.
you know, as opposed to later.
12:52 PM
matrix said...
Ok, guys here's how it works:
1. I post stuff I either come across or that people send me.
2. The stuff people send me is either their content or something them came across themselves.
3. Kevin has sent me both, stuff he contributed and stuff he came accross.
4. I have a policy on Anonymous posting as there is no telling who made the Anonymous post.
5. All sites and forum have moderators
6. Kevin did not take likely to me exercising this.
7. Kevin asked me to remove all reference, links and content that was his.
8. I interpreted this as EVERYTHING with his name or a link. Think about it, by me putting up a post that is not on Kevin's content but says via Kevin Lightner, that implies he endorses the site and sends me stuff.
9. I actually did not have to remove any of his content. Seriously I didn't because he gave me the permission at the time. If he changes his mind later, that does not mean I have to go back and change it.
10. I went ahead and spent HOURS removing his stuff as requested.
I always give credit and was annoyed that I had to remove it because of Kevin.
Also note that Kevin is 100% against removing comments. What do I do about all the posts with comments?
12:58 PM
matrix said...
Oh regarding not replying to Kevin's emails, I never got them. The last one I received was one on him asking me to remove the content. When I replied that I did, I received an undeliverable. I assumed he blocked my account. I think Kevin is playing me and you.
1:00 PM
Dave said...
The internet is a big, impersonal juggernaut whose inhabitants have frequently, hundreds and hundreds of times, cached my animations and content otherwise for their own personal use, and possibly even gain.
I have decided to let all of it slide, lazily due to the fact that its merits outweigh its piracies. Pervasive, albeit pirated, coverage has let to enough pseudo-fame to sell a couple hundred DVDs.
Having said this, I can't in good conscience compare a bunch of animations of naked boob-luvvin animals, or even a dozen strips about a keyboard-luvvin rat (whose toons I've always granted Matrix's permission to post, with great appreciation!), to the bottomless pit of resources that Kevin has provided since the '80s ('70s?). The stuff online really is the tip of the iceberg but I'm nevertheless extremely grateful for not only Kevin's synthfool site but also blogs like Matrixsynth and Music Thing, otherwise I might have missed a few cool details in the maelstrom of content Kevin owns.
Just want you guys to know that I personally understand and appreciate both sides of this debate, and both of you as well. Hopefully a greater understanding of the issues can come out of it, if nothing else positive.
The email posting bit... ugh. Fun synthy email discussions are harmless, but if there's information in the email that carries intrinsic value and took a lot of time and care to write out & is then turned around for free public consumption, it can only benefit the site providing the content if it ain't credited (preferably with linky goodness).
I think Kevin should publish his very own book (as opposed to just providing a slew of content for other works like Forrest's awesome Encyclo's). Not only would I buy it the day it came out, but it would be a real, financial way for Kevin to get kickback for his fame... :o)
1:03 PM
matrix said...
This is what I received. If you think I'm faking this, let me know and I'll put it up on a share so you can see for yourself.
postmaster@mail.hotmail.com postmaster@mail.hotmail.com
This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.
Delivery to the following recipients failed.
synthfool@synthfool.com
1:04 PM
matrix said...
And for the record. I'm not the one threatening to sue. Again, I SPENT HOURS cleaning up the site on Kevin's request when I did not have to. Again Kevin, let me know what you want and I'll do it.
As for putting up this post. Kevin stated that he notified Blogger. If Blogger decided to take the site down, I needed to let my readers know why.
1:07 PM
Anonymous said...
Still making things worse, eh?
Emails are private correspondence not intended for public viewing.
By reposting such emails, you violate privacy laws.
Business emails are like this all the time. Otherwise, business secrets could be shared without consequences.
People have been sued over sharing emails in public. Don't fool yourself.
You're breaking the law.
1:09 PM
Anonymous said...
Ok if Kevin had the stuff on his site then I`m sorry but it`s public domain simple, copyright is for greedy business people, matrix you did nothing wrong in my eyes and Kevin stfu
1:09 PM
Anonymous said...
If matrix is doing this on company time, Kevin could theoretically sue your employer. Is your boss very rich?
1:10 PM
matrix said...
"The email posting bit... ugh. Fun synthy email discussions are harmless, but if there's information in the email that carries intrinsic value and took a lot of time and care to write out & is then turned around for free public consumption, it can only benefit the site providing the content if it ain't credited (preferably with linky goodness)."
I believe there were two posts Kevin wrote for the site. I removed them along with the comments for now. Again Kevin asked me to remove all reference to him and his site, so that was the only option. If Kevin wants me to put them back up I will.
1:11 PM
Anonymous said...
OMG.. just because something is online doesn't mean it's public domain!
Go copy a pic from Disney.com and say it's yours. You'll be staring at a judge tootsweet.
What a maroon!!
1:12 PM
matrix said...
Kevin, why are you using the anonymous account? : )
Kevin, my entire career has been in software. I know my rights. : )
1:14 PM
Dave said...
That's the part I don't get... why would Kev want an email posted but *without* crediting him. To each his own, I guess...
1:15 PM
Anonymous said...
I think that this took the "synth" out of Kevins domain!
1:15 PM
synthbaron said...
LOL, time to grab some popcorn.
1:18 PM
matrix said...
Dave, when Kevin sent it he did want credit. I always give credit, you know that. I also know of a lot of blogs that do not give credit aside from the link to the post itself. I've sent content in to other blogs. They take it put the post up and don't bother crediting me. Why? Because the content I sent isn't mine. It's from another site. The via links on most blogs are out of courtesy. I do it because I want to support and promote others.
Kevin asked me to remove all reference to him and his site, which I thought was understandable considering saying this is via Kevin Lightner ads an endorsement from him to this site. Does that make sense?
The content wasn't his. It was another site or videos on YouTube, etc. They have nothing to do with Kevin. He just sent me the link and said check it out. I checked it out and if I liked it I put up a post. You will notice that a lot of my YouTube posts say YouTube via followed by Sent my way via. The YouTube via gives credit to the person that took the time to make the video available, and the Sent my way via gives credit to you sent me the link to the video. So for Kevin I removed all the "Sent my way via"
Think about that for a bit. Also think this. What do I have to gain from all of this? Hours lost going back and updating all of these posts? Losing Kevin's support? I don't want any of this.
1:26 PM
Anonymous said...
You're some very nasty work.
I hope he sues you too.
1:37 PM
synthbaron said...
Aww man, there go the post deletions again.
1:37 PM
Anonymous said...
i'm surprised everyone's on kevin's side. all i've seen on this site in the past month is evidence of Kevin accusing people of stealing content from his site and making public cease and desist announcements and generally complaining. dude, get over it. these are pictures of synths.
1:37 PM
Doktor Future said...
Matrix has always asked me for permission to post content. Even when I've said: hey dude, go nuts, post everything, I'm easy -- he still asks.
I have no problem with matrix. This is about my favorite site.
I am completely against censorship, and consequently, against deleting comments, even from bozos (like me :), but it's Matrix's blog, and he has to do what he thinks best.
I don't understand Kevin's position. People threatening to sue anybody can be tricky. It's not as if you can relax near them.
1:51 PM
morechampagneformybats said...
with your very established system of crediting forwarded info and those that forward it to you, and the fact that posts frequently are informative, educational, and part of an ongoing discussion about synths and their uses, and that all posts are open to comment, you have a good argument for the fair use of the stuff you post. sure, if kevin wants to challenge that he can, and you can ignore him, or oblige him, or you guys can talk about it. i am not sure what kind of remedy that he would gain from a court or arbitration and how much it would cost him just to get there. i'm guessing that it is not worth it, unless he is trying to make a point and has a few years on his hands. do you know how much it would cost to have a legit attorney pursue this?
i'm gonna get back to what i had to say before - one of you email the other a phone number and get to talking.
your dispute is bad, but some of the negative crap posted has been much worse, and not a lot of fun.
my wings are getting cold and my beer is getting warm.
1:52 PM
Fountain of Filth said...
I've been around the vintage synth community for nearly a decade. I've seen tons of hissyfits on AH, Synth DIY, AHOT, Gas Station, etc.
This, by far, is the silliest of them all.
Matrix, get back to work and be a Dad. Your efforts will be much more appreciated in those arenas.
1:54 PM
Anonymous said...
I think Keving is not taking the point here:
Tghis is a blog, not a standard website.
Do you want to sue matrix?? LOL
Don`t worry matrix, just remove all the KL content and BAN him for life...
1:58 PM
Chris said...
This site does so much good for the synth community and everyone involved I can't understand why people are here only to stir up the fire. The synth community needs this site, I need this site. Matrix please, please keep up the good work, and if we all love everything synthy then lets all pull in the same direction, it's too small a community not too.
1:58 PM
Anonymous said...
this is like me suing god for every dumb drunk thing i ever did...i wish i could. i'd be rich!
1:59 PM
JB said...
Hi Matrix and all fellow readers. Matrix has outstanding ethics when it comes to posting, and he does'nt do it for profit, and if you know this i don't think it's fair to criticize him wether he amde a mistake or not. Also a bunch of those anonymous posts are possibly from the same person, possibly synthjerk himself, so it should'nt be used to judge the readers' global opinion. In any case, Kevin Lightner has poor marketing strategies! Matrix i appreciate your site so much, it's on top of my list! You'll still be great without those few KL related posts.
THANKS!!!
2:10 PM
JB said...
by anonymus posts i ment comments.
2:13 PM
Anonymous said...
What are all those links on the right side of the main page for? Matrix you would have better ground to stand on if you removed anything you make money on.
2:18 PM
JB said...
If anyone thinks Matrix runs this blog for any other reason than a passionate love of synths they have to be f**ckin mad!
2:30 PM
JSRockit said...
I don't even get what's going on here. I think someone, not matrix, thinks his content and words contribute a little too much to this site...when in reality I didn't even know the name until this post. I'm sure most don't pay attention to the random names given credit on this site... just to what is important...the synths! Stuff like this is what will ultimately kill the internet. I'm sure Matrix is not generating much cash from this... wait, Matrix, are you?
2:33 PM
Things to Come Records said...
Hi Matrix,
Im not sure I understand what happened here but I just want you to know I enjoy your blog 2 times a day or more and I hope no one takes legal action against you.
Could this have something to do with your post about having over a million hits or views or something? Are there some gold diggers about? Not that Im even sure your making a penny from this blog... nor do I care... I like it.
Anyway... to whomever is bugging the Matrix... lay off please!
2:36 PM
Anonymous said...
My advice: clean house as needed, take the conversation with KL offline; delete this blog entry and move forward. There have been sunnier days on Matrixsynth and I personally don't see the need to enshrine this in the archives. Synth happens.
2:54 PM
Anonymous said...
Matrix:
1. Close this thread immediately
2. Cease all personal communication with the person who has threatened you with legal action
3. Contact a lawyer
Once someone threatens a lawsuit, no matter how frivolous, it is in your worst interest to resolve it yourself.
Thanks.
3:00 PM
Anonymous said...
I don't know who is at fault in this situation, but the guy threatening to sue is a retard.
3:09 PM
matrix said...
Sorry synthbaron. My last name was posted so I removed it. As for taking this post down, I think I need it in case anything does happen. Trust me if Kevin does sue me he will be suing all blogs and the press out there, not just me - if he sets some new legal precedent it will affect all blogs out there. I have removed everything that I am aware of is his. BTW, he sent me the content before and I keep all my email, so I have that as proof that he gave me permission to put the posts up. He has now asked me to remove them, and I did. I wasn't planning on bringing this to anyone's attention as it is all in the archives, but when I reveived the email from him claiming that he would notify Blogger, I decided to put up a post to let people know in case for some bizarre reason Blogger did comply. I've asked Kevin to provide me with what he believes is left so I can remove it as well, but he has not replied.
3:11 PM
Anonymous said...
if matrixsynth goes down then someone needs to get their ego in check
3:26 PM
frederic gerchambeau said...
I do love Matrixsynth and I do appreciate Kevin Lightner.
We all do.
We need BOTH of them.
So, you two, stop fighting.
Shake hands.
HERE and NOW.
Please do that.
Anger is a bad angel.
3:30 PM
Anonymous said...
is the poster "Fountain of Filth" lightners wife?
looks like someone got the evil eye, lol!
3:44 PM
matrix said...
For the record, I would be more than happy to. I've done everything Kevin has requested which again has taken me hours. Imagine having to go into the archive of this site and update and republish one post at a time. Blogger does not have a simple search and replace or bulk editing. I had search for his name and site and then manually take care of every single post. It was extremely tedious and tiring and again, I did not have to do this!!! He sent me stuff and gave me permission. I have asked Kevin to send me what else he would like me to do and I have yet to hear back from him. Kevin, if you are out there, please let me know either via email or in the comments here.
3:48 PM
Anonymous said...
Am i missing something? Since when is Kevin Lightner important. Matrix Synth can post what he wants, and wont get sued. Internet Law is weak, especially in the world of Blogs. All matrix synth is doing is reposting items, why the big fear or concern.
3:55 PM
Anonymous said...
Lightner needs to stop whining and go back to his reselling bullshit.
3:56 PM
Anonymous said...
Who,s Lightner and who cares? I read matrix synth, and dont really care about this retard thats whinning and wanting to sue.
3:57 PM
Anonymous said...
Kevin lightner is a
grumpy old prick,
I am a millionaire lawyer btw and I think I might sue K. Lightner for personal damages against Matrix for causing him undue stress.
KEVIN LIGHTNER IS A COCK SUCKER
4:34 PM
Anonymous said...
Get a grip, they are just synthesizers not nuclear secrects you both sound very childish, honestly most people who look at this site couldn't care less who or where the info comes from they just enjoy the content, it seems like a clash of egos to me.
4:38 PM
Chris said...
If we wan't this to be the first post to reach 100 Here is some helpful tips.
How To Participate In An Internet Flame War
1. Tell your opponent that the argument is over, because it's degenerated into pointlessness.... doing so at the end of your post giving you the lengthy last word in it.
2. Predict the imminent death of the Internet. ("Film at 11!")
3. Call your opponent a Nazi.
4. Change the subject by pointing out all of your opponent's grammar and spelling mistakes.
5. Post some horribly vicious and insulting note about your opponent.... several minutes later, post a profuse apology, claiming that you'd intended to send the message privately to a friend.
6. a: Refer frequently to pretend hordes of lurking supporters, who have mailed you privately to express their agreement and gratitude.... but aren't willing to come out publicly and say anything. (See also here.)
b: Accuse your opponent of trying to intimidate your hordes of supporters.... add indignantly that you "will not be silenced".
7. Attempt to impress/silence your opponent by discussing your professional credentials and experience related to the topic at hand, which clearly make your opinions better and more correct than anyone else's.... be vague about details if your credentials and experience aren't actually all that impressive. (Also known as "dueling resumes".)
8. Accuse your opponent of being overly sensitive, or suggest in a patronizing tone that they "must be having a bad day".
9. Claim that an insult or other rudeness was "just a joke", and suggest that your opponent has no sense of humor.
10. Claim that *everything* is a matter of opinion, that there are no such things as facts or truth.
11. a: Claim that facts are absolute.... that there's never any such thing as dispute or disagreement about a fact.
b: Assume that everything you learned in college, no matter how many years ago nor how much a field has advanced in the meantime, is completely unchanged.
12. Redefine words to mean whatever you want them to mean. (Also known as the "Humpty Dumpty" defense.)
13. Refuse to look something up, if challenged to do so.... no need, surely your memory is perfect.
14. Ask your opponent to supply lengthy and detailed references for their every statement.
15. Claim that if something works for you/your spouse/your kid/your parent/your best friend/your boss/your hairdresser's first cousin's dog's veterinarian, it will always work for everyone.... and if it doesn't, it's because they're not doing it right.
Due to the current debate I thought I shoul include this bit.......
(Author is Barbara Petersen, with help from Elizabeth Shapere.... please feel free to submit your own additions for the list, should inspiration strike you, or if you spot an important 'Net flame war principle I've left out.)
©Barbara Petersen, February 1999 barb@velvet.com
Let that be the last word on the matter !!!!
4:49 PM
Awakened Yeti said...
What i dont fucking get is whats so special about these particular words that makes Kevin so upset about you posting them? To the point of threatening legal action? Is there some kind of slander? Will his business suffer due to it?
Im with the "nuclear secrets" guy... just WTF is the big damn deal about this shit that its so important to remove in the first place?
5:07 PM
JZ said...
Matrix, you get all my support, you always credit everyone, and I have a lot of fun with your blog.
5:24 PM
Anonymous said...
Nothing new... KL has problems everywhere. We had similar action on Analog Heaven. This guy is so full of himself as if he is doing magic. I am surprise he did not give you his spiel of how much worth his time is!!!!
5:56 PM
Madame Curie said...
Fuck Analogue Heaven ... it was pretty good ten years ago when there was a west-coast contingent keeping it somewhat lively.
Someone said Lightner is one of the most important people in the synth world? How so? That's like saying D.A.C.Crowell or any of the other AH ass-buddies ever made anything resembling music.
8:05 PM
SonicBrat said...
No... Don't shut this site off ever!!! My life will crash!!! It's a synth hub for me... :(
Make peace... I am sure something can be sorted out. I don't think it's time to take sides... I love Matrixsynth site, I respect Mr Lightner for his invaluable works... So it's painful for a fan to see things get heated up...
I am sure Matrix gives credit duely... If anyone is unhappy about it I think Matrix will do something about it... and he is...
Thank you for the daily dolsage so synth mantra!!!
8:24 PM
matrix said...
Fair use: link.
Considering:
1. I originally only posted what Kevin either sent me to post or sent me and did not tell me not to post. (I save every single email BTW). As you know I am very into nostalgia
2. I went out of my way to remove every single item of Kevin's that I am aware of and will remove whatever else that is his and he asks me to remove.
3. Fair Use Law
I think I am safe on that front. I think Kevin is pissed that I put up this post, but I believe I am covered under freedom of speech, I have his email as proof that I'm not making this stuff up, and at the time I panicked and actually thought I better get this post up before Blogger takes the site down. I'm still a bit frazzled over this experience. What really pisses me off is I lost time with my daughter tonight because of this!!!!
I have a lawyer in the family and will check with that person next.
BTW, thanks to the person that sent me the fair use link. One of the huge weights just lifted off my shoulders.
8:29 PM
Anonymous said...
Watching you guys play lawyer with one another is hilarious.
8:45 PM
shoontz said...
Kevin I've worked as a freelance illustrator for over a decade, and have been delivering my work by e-mail for about the last five years. In that time the most important lesson I've learned is; an e-mail sent isn't always an e-mail received.
I used to get pissed off when I wouldn't here back from someone I'd e-mailed, and usually assumed that they were jerking me around. However, I've learned through many personal experiences that e-mail is at best a fickle beast, and if something is truly important or urgent nothing beats a good old fashioned phone call.
I hope that you can put aside your anger Kevin and give Matrix a call like morechampagneformybats suggested. I'm sure once you hear Matrix's voice you'll wonder how this ever went so far.
8:48 PM
Wiglaf said...
Oh brother.
Matrix: Ignore KL. Keep on blogging. The blogger.com TOS states clearly that what you post is under your control. They take no responsibility. For anything. You can post whatever you want.
8:59 PM
burstgenerator said...
...i like sprinkles with my ice cream.
9:21 PM
Chris Muir said...
From my (albeit limited) interactions, I think that Matrix is an honorable guy.
KL seems very prickly.
The flames on this thread were then fanned via anonymous comments. I would turn them off, if I was running things. If someone can't be bothered to create a fake account to post their inflammatory verbiage, is it really worth having it posted?
9:25 PM
Fountain of Filth said...
Yes, I am Kevin's wife. I'm not sure if he's still reading the thread.
I still maintain my position: This is the silliest thing I've seen from the vintage synth world.
Sillier than--
*someone on AHOT stealing a topless pic of me and posting it on his mp3.com site.
*a salesman with no synth experience from Ohio deciding "he's the one that started it all."
*someone claiming they could put a Moog 55 on a circuit board.
*people claiming DCO's are analog.
It's going to take a long, long time before the vintage synth community can come up with something sillier than this!
9:40 PM
Tyler said...
I think I love Mrs. Lightner!
...analog DCO's, bah!
10:26 PM
Anonymous said...
Who the fuck is Kevin Lightner ???
11:28 PM
leper mclimb said...
there has to be some cool synth shit going on at this very minute, as you, good reader are taking the time to read this, we could just as easily be marveling at this:
www.curetronic.de
12:24 AM
Tom said...
I'm 100% behind you Matrix.
If Kevin doesn't want publicity, don't give it to him.
Around 10-8 years ago, people like Kevin put in a tonne of work collecting synth material and putting it on the internet.
Today, people like you (and to a much lesser extent me) put in a tonne of work collecting synth material and putting it on the internet.
I hope to hell that in 2016 I'm not sitting around bitching because someone is reading and recycling old Music Thing posts.
Kevin is obviously a genius of synth repair, and if I ever had the money to use his services, I'm sure he'd be grateful.
But if you look in the Wayback Machine:
HERE, it's clear that Synth Fool as a website has got very little content now that wasn't there in 1997-1998.
The history of the site is interesting - when it closed down in 2000, Kevin said one of the reasons was:
" 4. Exposure
Most people have already seen what synthfool has to offer.
Indeed, tons of folks have already taken photos from the site, so future interested parties shouldn't have too much trouble finding them on the web."
3:47 AM
Tom said...
Also, I've just removed the permanent Synthfool link from Music Thing - I wouldn't want any of my visitors to get sued themselves...
4:00 AM
corky burger said...
Keep up the good work Matrixsynth.
5:47 AM
Tom said...
"if I ever had the money to use his services, I'm sure he'd be grateful."
Sorry, that was a typo. I meant to say "I'm sure I'd be grateful". Because I would, if he rescued some beautiful old synth for me.
6:28 AM
Anonymous said...
Hello there,
all this issue it's so sad....
Internet for me mostly is a source of information, and matrixsynth is a great source, tying the knowledge together. Kevin Lightner is a man with great knoweledge about vintage synths and their technology. So, we need both of you, you could short it out by phone maybe, away from this ridiculous anonimity.
As for the others who talk dirty about people that had never met in person, I have to say that it's not right and not so brave to abuse behind a screen, a keyboard and this anonimity wall.
SO PLEASE MAKE PEACE, WE NEED YOUR KNOWLEDGE!!
Sorry for the bad Engish.
Nikos Triantafillou-Greece.
7:03 AM
Anonymous said...
i think i understand the underlying cause of the problem here. as an amateur shrink, i think its that kevin lightner realizes matrix is becoming a bigger synth hero than he ever was or ever could be. matrix does this out of the kindness of his heart yet kevins activities seem to be to boost his ego and his business. this isnt to say kevin hasnt been helpful, but its coming from somewhere else. think about it... matrix removed a post that revealed his last name. this isnt about ego at all for him, hed rather stay anonymous! its about his love of synths and his desire to share it with us all... and give us something else to do while our employers are paying us to work. all praise matrixsynth, and protect him from any evil forces of the vintage synth universe! ;)
9:20 AM
Anonymous said...
This blogger post is obviously designed to harm Mr Lightner's goodstanding reputation and business.
I hope he sues the pants off you.
I bet Hans Zimmer is a big fan of your blog now.
9:57 AM
Anonymous said...
Matrix — there's a phone number in your email inbox. you should call it.
11:06 AM
Anonymous said...
"This blogger post is obviously designed to harm Mr Lightner's goodstanding reputation and business.
I hope he sues the pants off you.
I bet Hans Zimmer is a big fan of your blog now."
Yes, its a conspiracy...we're all in league with Hans Zimmer to ruin Kevin's reputation. Did you miss the meeting last week or what???!
Hilarity.
11:07 AM
Anonymous said...
There's obviously too many hours in a day - we're all spiteful people and we have nothing better to do with our precious time than actively try to harm KL. What a fookin idiot!
11:19 AM
Anonymous said...
I've said it before and I'll say it again, who the fuck is Kevin Lightner ???
By all accounts he repairs synths.
He lists a load of "big" names on a site that lacks any order or value. I'm sure that all of those "big name" individuals approached Kevin personally, not.
Bill Wyman, former bass player with the Rolling Stones lives near to me and his housekeeper called my friend (a car valeter) to come and valet some of Bills collection. Given Kevin Lightner's rule of name dropping, my mate could have put "Valeter to the stars, including Bill Wyman of The Stones" on his business card but he chose not to, respecting the individuals privacy and knowing full well it meant jack shit.
Going around boasting about the famous people you have allegedly "worked" for is the form of an individual whose ego needs a lot of self inflating. Empty vessels make the most noise.
Fight The Power Matrix :o)
12:21 PM
hans zimmer said...
this reminds me of the time when kevin tried to put my name on his 'clients' list. i made him take it down. i don't even know the guy
2:52 PM
adam s said...
I strongly suggest you implement something along the lines I suggested in
this post.
The anonymous motherfuckers really bug the shit out of me and I don't think they necessarily have the right to go unidentified (at least by association to other comments).
I'm shocked that as I read all 88 of these comments matrix had put up a few more posts! That's dedication.
I have no opinion about this bullshit except that it's great fun to read. I do hope for matrix's
3:04 PM
adam s said...
... sake it all ends soon
3:05 PM
adam s said...
Highly suspicious of the
"Hans Zimmer" commnet....
3:19 PM
bubblebunz said...
I guess this sort of thing is inevitable. You just need to organise a way of zapping content quickly if something personal like this arises. I've enjoyed this blog immensely over the last 6 months or so. Thanks for all your work.
4:30 PM
matrix said...
I heard back from my lawyer contact. I am in the clear. I did absolutely nothing wrong and apparently I can even put the email up if I want. I can put up all the emails we exchanged. You can't copyright an email, and even with Kevin asking me not to post it I can. If you could copyright email everyone would be suing everyone. I also could have left all the content up if I wanted to. I wasted a lot of time and went through a lot of stress over this one and I am done. Spent. Over and out. On to blogging and letting this one go. Even though the legal threat is over, I'm still a little tweaked out by the experience. I was really tempted to put the email back up but my lawyer contact and a few of you out there recommended I let this one go. I plan to do just that. Hopefully Kevin (or anyone else out there) will never do this to someone else. It's abusive and it is NOT RIGHT! Legal threats are always to be taken seriously unless you are a complete idiot. Who wants to have to worry about that sort of thing? Thanks for the stress and time lost Kevin.
4:36 PM
matrix said...
Note on the anonymous comments. A LOT of great stuff comes in via the anonymous comments and I personally hate having to sign in to just comment on a site, so I'm leaving them up. My recommendation? Ignore the idiot posts or better yet, get a laugh out of them! Some of them are quite funny. : ) Never take them seriously because if someone talks trash via an anonymous comment there is no validity there. You have no idea if they are tolling, or if they are the same person immitating others, so just let it go or have fun with it. If you look above you will see a lot of supportive anonymous posts. Why would I want to silence them? And for the record I have never and will never post anonymously on this site. I don't post trash and I have a lot of respect and tolerance for other people's opinions. BUT. I WILL REMOVE HATEFUL ANONYMOUS COMMENTS, porn, or whatever I feel warrants a removal. If you do not want to risk your comment being removed sign up for an account and post with that.
5:08 PM
Anonymous said...
I won't ever do business with Kevin now. Not that he'd ever have time to do business with a no name like me, but anywaze...
But Matrix, I think your lawyer got the email thing wrong. It's not a copyright issue, it's kind of like recording a phone call. You need consent of both parties in some places. So I wouldn't go around posting email disputes freely, as entertaining as they may be to some people.
5:12 PM
matrix said...
BTW, if you post anything that qualifies as Porn or Hate crime (think racial or sexual discrimination), I will remove it regardless of whether it is anonymous or not. It's my Blog and I nave the right to remove that if I want to. If I didn't Blogger wouldn't let me remove comments. Think about that. If you question my judgment when it comes to removing comments, just look at what I left up above and in other threads.
5:13 PM
matrix said...
Actually, the lawyer is pretty well versed. It this case it was a no brainer. I can put them up. Hopefully I will never have reason to.
5:19 PM
Anonymous said...
Well then put them up.
5:28 PM
Anonymous said...
One more post and that will be the 100th! Where's that button?
5:29 PM
hans zimmer said...
i'm a big fan of your blog now! nevermind, i'm suing. strike that, big fan!
5:50 PM
Anonymous said...
no, email you can share it is not like a recording, it's like a letter-- someone mails you a letter, they have already RECORDED their words, it is nows yours to do what you want with, they have essentially given ownership to you. No matter what disclaimers they have on their emails.. that's meaningless unless you both agree and sign a contract to that effect. Just adding conditions to the end of an email actually doesn't make it law. Companies do that all the time, but it's pretty much meaningless unless you work for them and value your job, and possibly agreeing to those terms anyway.
5:57 PM
Anonymous said...
kevin lightner's minimoog is up for sale!? wait, no it's not... & apparently, it never was.
6:16 PM
rekem1000 said...
Hey burstgenerator, what kind of icecream?
7:51 PM
JSRockit said...
I love popeye!
9:07 PM
Fountain of Filth said...
Geez, this gets sillier every time I read it!
BTW, I did recently sell a Minimoog on eBay (I handle parts sales and ebay stuff). The new owner is very happy with it.
9:23 PM
jan hammer said...
i really don't appreciate hans zimmer & kevin lightner conspiring to use me for publicity. it's just... despicably duplicitous!
9:46 PM
other! said...
This post title would make a good song title...
Hey my verification word is "kweiv"!
BTW, I could use some 2600 sliders. Anybody know where I could get some?
These comments via a sample and hold on my brain.
How do I DIN sync that?
I'd by that MooG 55 if it had MIDI!
Free transistors at Fairchild.com - check it out! Why buy them!
I think I ran ou
10:02 PM
other!!1 said...
t
Oh yeah, I need some 30 year old used 1/8 jacks too!
Now my verifcation word is "ffjkbgi". What type of word is that???!!! I liked "kweiv" better! It reminds me of the bridge over the river kweiv! No, no, my older brother Kweivie! No, no it has some thing to do with the illuminati I'm sure of it! Bad dog Spot! Now I'll have to send you to OBIK!!! Oh crap, now KIBO has to post to this thread...what have I done????
10:08 PM
other!!!111 BIFF said...
12345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890XXXXX DON'T GO INTO THE X'S !!!!!
^L
^L
^L
^D
^D
^D
.
exit
stop
bye
^C
^Z
!sh
!ed
/exit
quit
q
/quit
~x
help
help stop
!help
logout
$signoff
write sysop "how do i stop this ???"
psot
post
^P^O^S^T
Yea! the word of the day is "nupyyr". I like nuppyr. "It's such a friendly sounding word. It sounds like a nickname. 'Hey, Tits, come here. Tits, meet Toots, Toots, Tits, Tits, Toots.' It sounds like a snack doesn't it? Yes, I know, it is, right. But I don't mean the sexist snack, I mean, New Nabisco Tits. The new Cheese Tits, and Corn Tits and Pizza Tits, Sesame Tits Onion Tits, Tater Tits, Yeah. Betcha can't eat just one." (c) George Carlin.
Whoa! Those pics from Amos gave me a flashback to the 60's!!! Baliff, whack his..
10:22 PM
other1 said...
Sorry, this part was (c) James Kibo Parry:
12345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890XXXXX DON'T GO INTO THE X'S !!!!!
^L
^L
^L
^D
^D
^D
.
exit
stop
bye
^C
^Z
!sh
!ed
/exit
quit
q
/quit
~x
help
help stop
!help
logout
$signoff
write sysop "how do i stop this ???"
psot
post
^P^O^S^T
But not this part: xppmgf!
Must be some sort of Xwindows utility!
10:25 PM
Anonymous said...
http://web.archive.org/web/20000620123359/http://www.dennishoulihan.com/
I guess Lightner's come a long way from not wanting to sue people.
Excuse me, _internet sue_ people.
10:31 PM
hans hammer said...
being the illegitimate love-child of hans zimmer & jan hammer, i can tell you all w/ some authority that they're both big fans of this blog now.
11:00 PM
hans hammer said...
forgot about my webpage plus
11:02 PM
jan zimmer said...
hans hammer, you little shit. everyone knows kevin lightner is the true heir to the throne of hans & jan senoir.
11:05 PM
jan zimmer said...
my dads say kevin lightner is a leper.
11:12 PM
matrix said...
BTW, I just realized I thanked everyone that sent me email but not here. Thanks for all the support everyone. It meant the world to me.
cheers,
matrix
8:36 AM
Shanksy said...
I saw this post yesterday and being a somewhat ponderous person I spent the evening holding my chin and squinting one eye slightly. The only conclusion that I can come to is that Matrix has done the right thing.
Kevin is somewhat well known in synth circles, and has used Matrix's blog in the past to seemingly promote both himself and his service (in my opinion). Matrix on the other hand is some anonymous guy (I presume a guy - no woman would go for this color scheme), who continuously shares some great stuff he comes across, and clearly spends a lot of time adding content to this blog just for the love of it, and he does a great job of it.
Kevin - It's my understanding that your emails and comments are public domain once you send them, you have no legal right to ask for them to not be published, or to have posts edited after the fact other than as a personal favor from Matrix - which Matrix appears to have done. Some might view your legal threats as the actions of a bully.
Matrix, thank you for this blog, and for dealing with this thing in a really transparent and mature way - you've gone up in my estimation considerably.
8:56 AM
Anonymous said...
i asked kevin about this.
he has quite another story about it.
he showed me things you're not mentioning.
with respect to his proven track record of helping people, id rather believe him.
you look like a real prat to me now matrix.
11:46 AM
Anonymous said...
I think someone needs a plank of wood strapped to their arse to stop them from disappearing up Mr Lightner's already enlarged asshole !
12:33 PM
Anonymous said...
Kevin has not written anything bad about you.
Aren't you making everything worse with this post and "more_docs_on_synthfool" in the URL bar?
It appears you are taunting him and trying to ruin his business.
One thing is for sure.
Kevin has a lot more class and credibility than you.
Talent too.
I think you are just jealous of him.
What have you done for anyone except copy and paste?
12:42 PM
Anonymous said...
Exactly. Cutting and pasting from AH, VSE, and Ebay isn't creating a damn thing. People are really stupid now - they think DJs are musicians too.
1:34 PM
Anonymous said...
Kevin Lightner and his fanboys should carry on repairing synths that used to belong to someone whose name we can't remember anymore and just get on with it. I'm sure they're very good at it.
What they should stop doing is using innocent individuals to massage their egos and create a false sense of achievement via their innocent passion for the technology.
The real "movers and shakers" in this industry are nameless and unsung. They do not require the attention like the Kevin Lightners of this world. They do what they do and do it for the love of it, not the attention and faux adulation they nurture and receive.
Only flimsy lightweights who are worried about the fragility of the fake reputations they have built need to sling threats of litigation over the internet. Trust me, if someone was serious about a legal action, they would do it in the utmost privacy, as any public flaunting would seriously jeopardise their chances of success. Those that make these threats in public are shamelessly seeking attention and recognition for their fake cause.
It don't wash with me and a shit load of others, sonny Jim.
I pity those hangers on who feel that an association with Kevin Lightner is something really cool. It's anything but. He's a repairman. Do you suck up to the cable guy as much ???
2:05 PM
Anonymous said...
I guess you think Kevin got into synths for the big money and ego?
I've seen his work and other techs just don't do what he does.
"The real "movers and shakers" in this industry are nameless and unsung."
You must be a big mover and shaker.
4:39 PM
Mark G. said...
Cable guys can be taught in a day.
Where's all the other good vintage techs if it's so easy and there's a fan club waiting?
4:43 PM
Anonymous said...
"People are really stupid now - they think DJs are musicians too."
no, we all know the real musicians horde vintage synths and argue about them on mailing lists, right?
6:15 PM
Carbon111 said...
Wow. I finally checked out this post. Very sad :(
I think this reveals a lot of pathology on KL's part. I'm very disappointed...used to respect Kevin. I mean there's manic and then there's MANIC...pretty obvious where some of the "anonymous" posts are coming from...same tone, same diction.
6:23 PM
Kevin Lightner said...
Seems there's opinions being formed on insufficient data.
Here's what you don't apparently don't know....
http://www.synthfool.com/matrix.html
That's all I'll write.
Some of you will believe anything you read anyways.
Disappointed in you, Carbon. :(
9:10 PM
Carbon111 said...
Wow...Kevin, you have completely misuinderstood Matrix - his personality, his intent and his motives. You have no idea how sad this all is.
9:43 PM
Anonymous said...
as with any legal matter - and i do have some authority - there are 3 sides or more to every story. quite a complicated set of facts. the original complaint that started this thing off was merely a complaint and didn't constitute anything actionable. linking to someone's site certainly wont get you into trouble. as far as copyrighted material, sure, you could argue that using it is illegal, but when you add the various haphazard attempts at mitigating his liability, matrix still ends up making a strong showing for trying to find a solution. as far as reputation and the like ( i assume kevin alludes to some sort of defamation action ), the nature of the opinions, and versions of facts in this case have been represented as such both impliedly and explicitly. at least, a cursory glance at the stuff here in the "comments" section would indicate that. as far as the emails, yeah, that stinks that someone wants to take that public, maybe bad taste, but it'd be tough to make a case for anything. i mean, if a guy wants to run something he is scared of by a few thousand of his closest friends for an opinion, he can probably get away with it, considering the inherently community nature of a blog. everyone sitting around rapping about this thing and that. the comment section is for opinions - and they may vary and be hurtful, or damaging, but may not be defamation.
i urge you all to take a long hard look at this:
http://www.eff.org/bloggers/lg/
it's the electronic frontier foundation's legal guide for Bloggers -
anyway, i agree with everyone that has expressed a need to move on. this is ridiculous, and it is not worth kevin or matrix's time to let it go on.
kevin has posted his version of the facts with opinion and matrix has been on and off doing the same. we all get a sense of both sides, their motives, and their character.
we'll all make our own decisions. seriously...i think you should bury the hatchet. no one should sue anyone.
if either/both sides is/are concerned about reputation and their career/business interests, they would be best served by privately and publicly ending this with apologies on both sides, regardless of the other sides perceived sense of "guilt" or "innocence" and get back to doing the things you were before.
both of you rely on references, communication, and integrity to succeed in your endeavors, and name-calling, finger-pointing, and threats are the worst threats to your integrity and character in this matter.
10:51 PM
Failed Muso said...
The saddest thing here in all actuality is the terrible indictment on society and its desire to resolve everything via litigation or the threat of it. It seems nowadays that all you have to do is fart really bad, and someone will sue you for distress, mental anguish and an assualt on the nose !
Seriously though, why do people need to resort to bandying around legal threats to exert their will ? What happened to an extended dialogue between grown individuals who really should know better ?
I've been following this thread closely as I consider Matrix to be a good "virtual" buddy. We don't talk much, but when we do he has come across as nothing but friendly, altruistic and an intelligent individual. His blog has long been a favourite of mine and we cross pollenate each other by links to our posts all the time. In my opinion, Matrix merely provides a blog for fans of electronic music and the tools used to create it. He makes no financial gain from it. He also makes no ego gain, as he remains totally anonymous. I don't even know what his name is !
People like Matrix, and other music tech bloggers like myself and Music Thing just enjoy the material and the discussion that ensues and if anything, we are a source of free advertising for many people. I would never have found so many people had I not been reading MatrixSynth or MusicThing. They are the portal and will generate loads of hits and hopefully some business for all those people too. I have received many emails from manufacturers who have received redirected traffic to their site from mine, thanking me for the support. I don't do it to get freebies or discounts, I do it because if I like something, I think there are probably many others who might like it too. What we do, as music tech bloggers, is provide a free service that is symbiotic with developers and other associated industries. The power of the internet is strong and many people can benefit from a peaceful and co-operative co-existence.
Sadly though, there is a down side. The internet is full of people who all have an opinion and all believe it is their inalienable right to share that opinion. As Winston Churchill once said, "No one has a right to an opinion, but everyone has a right to an informed opinion". And that's the real difference here. Out of the 130 posts on this thread alone so far, the vast majority are anonymous, indicating that those opinions are totally uninformed and merely troll baiting and flaming. Many of those posts are arguing points of law and only one or two are anywhere close (I work in the industry so have a good understanding). Each side seems to have it's supporters and detractors in equal measure. There have been a handful of sensible and logical posts, all of which have come from "named" individuals, which again adds weight to my previous argument.
Ultimately, the only damage caused by this, is damage to the reputation of the community. Matrix will continue to blog, Mr Lightner will continue to repair synths. We can argue the merits of each until we are blue in the face, but no one has lost anything other than a bit of face, maybe.
Let's all move on, put it all to one side and just carry on doing what we all do best.
1:01 AM
Anonymous said...
Sorry Matrix, but you are quite simply full of shit on this one.
And that would also include any of those people who are questioning Kevin's character.
I've known Kevin Lightner for about 15 years now and have NEVER experienced any of the negative things you're claiming.
It's amazing to me that the people here (who are mostly relative newbies - let's be honest) are questioning Kevin's credibility.
As far as I'm concerned, Matrix, you really don't do ANYTHING but try to come off as someone important by posting links to other people's information.
Not very important, if you ask me.
Whereas Kevin has been PROVIDING information and content for many, many years.
All I can say is LAY OFF.
Take down any references to the content that he created.
And maybe DO something for yourself, instead of just pointing out what other people do.
11:35 AM
Christopher Cox said...
Amen!
It's so easy to talk crap about people you know nothing about.
So easy to pick and chose what you want to believe and what to ignore.
But in the end, people remember people that have skill and help others.
You seem to have none of these attributes, Matrix.
You should be ashamed for calling out someone that does.
11:48 AM
Anonymous said...
I'd also point out that I've been the recipient of a lot of Kevin's generosity over the years.
I couldn't count the number of instances in which he's given me the benefit of his VAST technical knowledge on both hands!
So again, I see two sides here, but one of them is actually contributing to the synth community (and has for years) in real life.
And the other, well...isn't.
You're a software guy, right?
Would it be okay for me to take any of your code and provide it to other people as long as I remove any comments that may identify it as yours?
12:01 PM
R. Hanna said...
In reading the commments presented here there appears to be those that get what Kevin Lightner does and those that haven't a clue. Here's a thought...if you don't get what Kevin does, pass on the speculation and move on. I thought I had an idea what Matrix was trying to achieve here with his blog. Now I'm not so sure. And yes, I would have a problem with it if I was selling something online and suddenly found my pictures and text posted on this blog without permission.
12:43 PM
Anonymous said...
Matrix- What do you hope to gain?
Kevin has been a great supporter to the entire synth community.
He has helped me out many times with resources and advice.
This blog is a waste of energy if it's just a smear campaign.
I think defamation of character happens way too much these days. People feel much safer to do it online, because the consequences seem to be none.
If this were on print media, you would have some problems.
Search your heart.
Peace,
Paul
12:52 PM
matrix said...
I'm not sure what I should do. Much of what Kevin put up in his version is true, but in hindsight, much of it was probably a misunderstanding. When he asked me to remove all references to him, his site or his content I did minus a few posts that I would have to completely take down. Kevin was upset about me removing one of his comments as he has clearly stated. In the emails he made it clear that he is absolutely opposed to removing comments. So I removed all references to him and took down any without comments in them, but left up the posts with comments. Instead of taking them down I changed via Kevin to via an anonymous reader, until I heard back from him. And again, for the record, I did not have to take anything down.
Kevin asked me to remove content on 11/14/06 at 11:57PM. I stayed up until 1:00 AM removing content and then followed up the next day. I sent email to Kevin asking him what he wanted me to do with the posts that had comments at 9:23 AM on 11/15/06. I received an undeliverable (posted above) and figured great, he just blocked my account. So I decided to wait to hear back from him. I then received an email from him titled "Legal notice" on 11/16/06 at 10:21. I keep all emails. Note this is one day. In the email he mentioned Blogger would be notified, so I immediately put this post up to let readers know what happened if the site went down. I am not a legal expert. I'm just some guy that likes synths and posts about the stuff he comes across. I also had a LOT of respect for Kevin, so when I received Kevin's email I took it very seriously. It really freaked me out.
Note that I have said nothing to defile Kevin's character. Read this post, and my comments in it. This is all about me not wanting to get sued and freaking out over the email Kevin sent me. That's all. He is still the greatest synth tech out there, or at least I think he is. This post isn't meant to take that away. You cannot deny Kevin's technique and reputation as a synth tech. If I wasn't me and I needed my synth repaired, I'd go to him hands down. This post isn't about that.
This post is about the legal threat instigated by Kevin and me trying to protect myself. I now realize I was safe all along, which is unfortunate. Had I known that I would never have put this up.
This post is also not about me vs. Kevin and who you agree with more. We all have differences of opinion on things. Kevin did not agree with me removing comments I found to be particularly distasteful. He has every right to disagree with that and I'm sure many of you would disagree as well. My only recommendation is to not pick sides. I am not asking anyone to.
And for the record, I am not an employee of Microsoft. : )
This just reminds me of how long we have been in contact with each other. I really had and to some extent still have a tremendous amount of respect for Kevin.
1:53 PM
Delete
1:56 PM
The Volt per Octaves said...
Knowing Kevin personally, this discussion upsets me.
All I will say is that Kevin and his wife are both great people and always willing to help...
I can honestly say that Kevin's work is amazing, as he brought by Mini back from the graveyard. So whether or not you know Kevin or his work, take it from me - There is no other synth tech on his level. (Rudi Linhard is way up there too !)
So for people to accuse Kevin of shotty work or lying about his clientel (past and present) is just wrong...
But to stick to the theme here :
Whatever the laws say, I think emails that are supposed to be confidential, should remain that way. Whenever I see that disclaimer on an email, I take it very seriously. We all should..
Now lets stop the name calling and get back to synth lovin' ...
2:14 PM
Wes said...
Kevin and I have known each other for about 15 years now. You could, on one hand, consider us competitors. On the other hand, you can consider us as friends. Though we have never met face to face, we have shared many similar experiences in our field. When I need something special, I know I can turn to him. When he needs the same, he knows he can turn to me. In the synth world, we both have our followings. In the end, we are just two guys trying to provide for our families.
Kevin and I certainly would have something to gain by trying to deal with each other differently than we do. We choose not to. I have absolutely no reason to believe that he would treat anyone else differently than he treats me. He has time and again provided information to the synth community. I can certainly understand when comments like:
"9. I actually did not have to remove any of his content. Seriously I didn't because he gave me the permission at the time. If he changes his mind later, that does not mean I have to go back and change it."
are made can upset the owner of the material. If Kevin tells you that you can use his car on Monday and then states that you cannot use it on Tuesday, you no longer have permission to continue to use it.
I will say that Kevin has earned and deserves my respect. I am surprised at those that jumped on the hate train so quickly, especially with so little supporting evidence.
Wes Taggart
Analogics
5:44 PM
matrix said...
It would have been nice if Kevin let me know they were on loan. :)
7:45 PM
matrix said...
I can't answer why people jumped on Kevin, but my guess is it had something to do with the letter. I've also heard he's done the same to others before. He was pretty nice to me until he disagreed with me. If Kevin likes I can put the letter back up. I'd actually like to, but I haven't out of respect for him.
7:49 PM
John Bezjian said...
I just found this blog and was going to comment on the "Which Digital synth came first" on the home page I just saw. I'll go back and put my 2 cents there in a minute.
But first.... I ran across this thread regarding my good friend Kevin Lightner and just had to comment.
(As much I really don't want to add any more fuel to this fire...)
After reading all the posts pertaining to this topic, I'll say upfront that I've known Kevin for at least 20 years.
For the record, In addition to playing and programming synthesizers, ( I got my first Moog Modular Synthesizer 12 in 1973), I've had the pleasure of working for Polyfusion as an endorsed artist for their modular synths in the 1970's, I was the Emulator III product specialist for E-mu Systems, in the late 1980's, US Sales Manager for Fairlight Instruments (Mfr. of the first digital sampling instrument, the Fairlight CMI) in the mid 1980's, in the late 1970's for the West Coast Distributor of the New England Digital Synclavier, in the early 1980's Moog Music, Inc. as the North East Representative.
I have also taught several years of synth courses at UCLA Extension including the creation of the "Synthesis and Sound Design" course and the "A Complete Guide to Digial Sampling" course many years ago.
When I worked at Moog Music, Inc., I was involved with creating the "factory" programs for the Memorymoog in addition to my duties being the North East Representative for Moog.
I sold the Memorymoog, Source, Opus 3, Rogue and Taurus II synths to all the Moog dealers in the New England states of MA, NH, VT, ME, RI, and PA, NY & NJ from 1981 to 1984.
I was hired to work at Moog by Herb Deutsch (co-inventor of the Moog Synthesizer with Bob Moog...without them we all wouldn't be here in the first place.) Thus my feeling compelled to give the historical lead in and my partial life story due to the comments about all us "old guys" from the anonymous poster regarding those "whose names we can't remember anymore" etc. that are speaking out on behalf of Kevin as people who have had their synths brought back to life by him.
I'm sure my name is unknown to most people as well, so who cares? I have made my living with synthesizers for over 30 years and I'm proud of that.
My point of boring you with all of the above being that I've been in this industry for a very long time as an artist, composer, programmer, salesperson, product specialist, etc. etc. I've seen quite a bit over the years.
Anyone that could slam Kevin on any technical level, call him a "just a repairman", or the "Do you suck up to the cable guy as much ?" comment has most likely never owned a vintage synth and had it wrecked by a hack that's called themselves a synth technician. The real techs are few and far between from my personal experience.
Kevin's expertise IS legendary. All the wannabe's that charge people a fortune for repairs that usually don't last more than a day or two after a synth is returned to them are probably jealous of his expertise. I've known many of them, good and bad, over the past 30+ years in this industry.
Saying that Kevin's "just another repairman" is total BS. Kevin doesn't just "fix" a synth when you send it to him. He RESTORES it. Ask anyone that's had a synth RESTORED by Kevin. There's very few, if ANY other techs that have his depth of knowledge and capability regarding many of the vintage synths the readers of this blog are interested in.
Kevin has created a wealth of materials, synth data, pics, etc. that he's shared over the years with many people all over the world and I don't think the unkind comments directed at him are deserved at all.
12:01 AM
Anonymous said...
A note to all.
I thought the internet should all make us better at communication. This subject haved proved not.
Much of what I have read here is obviously misunderstandings, trolling or wild guesses. I am very sorry to be reading many of these posts.
The faceless communication opens up a lot of new methods of hurting each other. We really need to learn to be polite at each other. Differences in opinion is no excuse for behaving badly.
I understand Matrixsynths desire to spread all and everything about synthesizers as quickly as possible. Enthusiasm is generally a good thing. There are times when you need to think for a second or two before acting, though. One such instance would be when dealing with someone who is working with synthesizers professionally, that is, making a living out of it. It is obvious that Kevin Lightner is a very professional synth technician, and a very good one too. His contribution into the synth community is highly regarded by many, and there is a good reason for this. Many on this blog has stated his profound knowlegde of synths that he generousily share with people. We really need to appreciate his effords, and take care of those who knows how to keep our beloved synths alive and well.
I have been dealing with Kevin Lightner several times over the last years, buying everything from a rare tiny components to a complete restored instrument (I am the owner of the color-changing minimoog). I have also asked many, many questions regarding synth details, and have always been given precise, correct and complete information in a friendly tone. Matrix, the owner of the blog, has stated that he still has a tremendous respect for Kevin LIghtner, and I really hope that all of you can share this statement.
Be nice. Behave.
My name is Terje Winther, and I write in anonymously (this is my first post ever on this blog) because I have not made an account. You could always read more about me at http://www.wintherstormer.no/
Thanks for reading.
6:43 AM
Anonymous said...
I struggle to believe that Mr Bezjian "just found this blog and was going to comment on the "Which Digital synth came first....But first.... I ran across this thread regarding my good friend Kevin Lightner and just had to comment."
To do that would have meant searching the archives as this post no longer appears on the front page ! Hardly "just ran across", more like "actively sought out this thread to big up ma homeboy!"
Looks like Kevin has rounded up some of his buddies/fanboys and got them to stick up for him !
7:17 AM
Anonymous said...
I found this post the same way.
I hit the nov 2006 link because its the 20th and the posts stopped at the 18th.
Do you think all peoples just read the front page of the newspaper?
It is dumb comments like yours that make me leave this place, even if it is neat.
Even if true, I would like buddies like this person to stick up for me.
Matrix has so much idiots like you already here.
To work for 30 years with synths!
That is so great.
It is more important than dumb blogs like this.
7:31 AM
Bilbo said...
Don't you guys know there's an underground tech mailing list?
All of these guys talk *and* they tell each other what customers to avoid.
No joke. They give each other parts too and manuals. I know this is true.
7:37 AM
Wes said...
Kevin and I have a conference call every Monday at 12:00 Noon EDT to discuss how we are going to approach the analog synth community for the week.
We were both on the Grassy Knoll in Nov of '63.
Wes Taggart
Analogics
9:44 AM
spoonz said...
Matrix
If you have upset Kevin then it must then it must be for good reason.
He is one of the most helpful people i have come across in terms of his time and knowledge and not the least bit precious of stuff generally.
I think you crossed the line and an apology is due. Go one be a man
CV
10:33 AM
matrix said...
What's interesting about this comment is I think this is what it was all comes down to. I had a different opinion than Kevin. Kevin couldn't handle that, so he asked me to remove everything and before I could work with him on removing it all (just over one day folks) he threatens legal action to freak me out. Well it sure worked. I don't threaten legal action with people that have differing opinions than me and I don't ask them to apologize. I respect that because I am not them and I know people have different opinions and my ego isn't that big.
10:59 AM
Roger Joseph Manning Jr. said...
Hey all came across this discussion in my travels and felt compelled to say a few words on Kevin's behalf. I've known Kevin for at least the past 11 years now. Not only has he been there for me as a top nothch technician to my antique synth collection, but has seriously schooled me on these lovely dinosaurs as well. We've engaged in many a business transaction and I have never come away with feeling anything but that I was treated with the utmost respect and professionalism.
On a personal note we get along great and share a very similar sense of humor. However I can remember one short incident that might be relevant here. About a year ago, after I sent out a mass e-mail to friends and family of a political nature, Kevin responded by bringing to my attention his frustration with my assumption that it was OK and not in the least bit rude to send one his way. Momentarily taken aback, we talked about this in detail. Long story short, I came to understand the error of my ways in my lack of respect towards others politcal/personal views and potential differences of opinion in that not everyone views the internet information vehicle that is e-mail in the same light. Kevin's was not the only e-mail that I later received of this nature as a result of my mass mailing. I appreciated Kevin expressing his discontent with my actions (as opposed to harbouring any ill will towards me) and as adults we ironed out the situation. I actually learned something in the process that serves me to this day in my interaction with friends, family and collegues. It has been my experience over the years that Americans, epecially, assume and take way too much liberty with respect to internet communication edicate, or lack thereof. Unfortunately it is an obvious symptom of how our culture conducts itself in the real, everyday world of physical interaction. On a grander scale we have forgotten or are simply ignorant of the basic virtues of respect, politeness, and dignity towards others in our personal interactions. And the musical community has been no exception.
With the best of intentions for all concerned...thanks for giving me the opportunity to share my thoughts.
ROGER JOSEPH MANNING JR.
11:10 AM
Anonymous said...
Just a quick note. As someone who has contributed synth information on the net over the years, it continually dismays me to see information, pictures, etc of mine used unattributed. Recently, it's become more of a concern when I see private email reposted publicly - be it a blog, forum, or Usenet group. I think in the interests of wanting to disseminate information and be seen as an informed source, people are too quick to take ownership with asking first.
I find it interesting that at the bottom there is a line saying: ©2006 Matrixsynth - You do not have permission to copy posts from this blog, yet the same respect for information in private email is not extended to others.
12:16 PM
matrix said...
Anonymous, that is completely incorrect. I have never posted one of Kevin's emails that he asked me not to post aside from this "Legal notice" letter, which I immediately took down as soon as I realized my error. Kevin sent me content to post. When he did not want me to post he usually mentioned not for posting. I think there was one time where he did not do this, I put the post up with a via Kevin and he let me know he didn't mean for me to post it (But he did not explicitly ask me not to post this in his email). The silly thing is I don't believe it was even his content, just a link to some video that he wanted me to check out. Most of what I posted for Kevin was not actually his content, but links sent to other people's content. For the record here are the posts Kevin specifically sent me that have been removed:
1. How to Identify Contacts Will Need Cleaning on a Minimoog
2. Brochures on Synthfool
3. The Hakko 470 Desolderer
4. Happy 10 Year Anniversary Synthfool!
5. MIDI Mini Video
6. Jupiter 8 Envs Tracked by an Apple II
7. Bad Caps
8. Why the white Arp Odyssey is not always "the better Odyssey"
9. Why a Moog Sounds like a Moog
10. More docs on Synthfool
That's 10 out of 4638 posts to date. Not many but some of them were indeed good ones. Note the compliment folks. But more importantly note that NONE of these were "personal emails." I challenge you or Kevin to post back with "the personal email" posts referred to.
12:50 PM
Wes said...
From your website:
NOTE: IF YOU SEND ME EMAIL YOU GRANT ME THE RIGHT TO POST WHAT YOU SEND
email: matrix
Old Matrixsynth
I think anonymous is pointing out the paradox of your seemingly two points of view in the ownership of information. Your website seems to indicate that you claim sole ownership of any email sent to you. You can use the email in anyway you see fit, but others cannot. I think this is what he is pointing out. It certainly does not have a benevolent tone concerning personal information not intended for the general populous.
Wes Taggart
Analogics
1:40 PM
Maciek Polak said...
It’s quite absurd when a person like my myself has to defend or vouch for such a name as Kevin Lightner, jumping into such a nasty thread, but enough bad press has been produced and I would not feel right not to comment.
You, dear chaps, come from deep within the very nest of Western culture and, most likely, never suffered from what can be called a mixure of prejudice and indifference, shown to people from ‘inferior’ countries. I come from one of such places and, somehow, have always found KL (and his wife, of course) as one of nicest persons in the analogue synth world. And, (hey, now curious !), have always received a timely and polite answer, even when not buying a SINGLE thing..
In the past, I have had so-called serious and verified sellers never bother to sign their emails with a full name, let alone reply in full to my detailed questions on their products, something very unlike the attitude of the Lightners.
If I know something, it’s that KL works his ass off to earn the money and credit he deserves. When somebody mentions Hans Zimmer (for the millionth time), just be fair enough to add that it takes a man with balls and huge skills to become his tech.
If you have a fight and can’t reconcile, do so but piss off and leave the public image of KL alone. Same goes to the guy dissing Analog Heaven. If you do not like it, unsubscribe. If you have never been a list member - piss off, too.
Maciek Polak, AH
2:50 PM
matrix said...
wes, I'm not sure what you are saying. Please elaborate. BTW, you can thank Kevin for the note on emails. I put it up after this happened. You wouldn't think someone would threaten legal action for content they asked you to originally put up.
3:19 PM
Wes said...
Layman's terms. I send you an email. Your statement leads one to believe that you now own the email and its contents. Legally, this is tenuous at best. Then let's say you post this email. At the bottom of your site is this (which anonymous was referring to):
"©2006 Matrixsynth - You do not have permission to copy posts from this blog."
(Ironically, I am copying this info from your website, so I am admittedly in violation of the above quote)
This would lead one to believe that they cannot copy the contents of their own email, based on your alleged copyright. Do you see the paradox?
You are saying that you gleen info from the Internet, use it (post it), and then do not want anyone else to use it as you just have.
If you don't want others to copy the code the is your website, that is completely understandable. It is your creation and rightly should be protected, if that is your desire (though based on your other actions I would think everything would be open sourced). The information that you are providing is either the personal property of others or public domain. In either case, you have no right to ownership. This is surprising in that I believe you are involved in the software industry. If so, you should have knowledge in the way this type of licensing works. If someone gives you a link to something they do not own, then yes, I think they may have a hard time telling you to retract. If it is something they own, then you have license to use until they retract. Again, if I let you borrow the car on Monday, it doesn't mean you have access to the car for life, no matter what my wishes are.
As far as Kevin goes, I do not have evidence one way or the other whether he threatened you legally. I haven't seen any documents and it really is a personal issue between the two of you. The issue for me is that there seems to have been some effort to skew points of views in this personal matter. The topic at the top of this blog speaks volumes. You took something that was private, and should have remained so between the two of you, and made it very public. That is the issue. None of us should have been privy to this matter.
Wes Taggart
Analogics
PS Legally, stating that emails become your possesion does not make it so. That's like putting a sign on your lawn stating that you will hurt any person s stepping on the grass. I may actually keep some people off the lawn, but it doesn't legally make it so. If a lawyer tells you otherwise, get a new lawyer.
5:29 PM
matrix said...
Thanks Wes. Got it. Apologies for me not fully understanding at first. I agree it's lame that I had to put the email note up, but I don't want this to ever happen again. As for the Copyright, I put that up because another site was grabbing my site feed and reproducing it post for post. I've since switched to partial feeds so this is no longer an issue, but I left up the Copyright notice up regardless. BTW, I recommend you take a look at my archives when you get a chance. There's been this odd notion of me putting up personal emails. I don't. If you find any in the archives let me know. I want to be 100% transparent on all of this. You should ask Kevin to see the email he sent me. Again, if he gives the OK, I will put it back up so others can judge for themselves.
6:14 PM
Anonymous said...
As I asked earlier. What do you hope to gain from this?
I sadly read more posts today. The title "Kevin Lightner Wants to Sue Me" tells a bigger story. I don't think it's his big desire to sue you. He's too busy working on synths. It' s really a title that avoids the real issue. What do you want, Matrix?
Peace,
Paul
12:56 AM
Anonymous said...
Kevin and co. should better consider it all as promotion... Before things turns out completely wrong!,just some advise...
Most will not understand this,but its not importand...
1:59 AM
Harold Fitzgerald III said...
Wow Kevin, you did stirr up the community pretty bad here. After reading your side of the story, I still cannot feel pitty for you. And how about that: making a "LEGAL NOTICE" private!!! How can that be? I thought legal documents are official documents and thus doesn't need to be treated as private content.
Let's face it, you had your reason but you had to do it in your arrogant way. Good thing they tucked you away from civilization.
4:18 AM
Anonymous said...
Hello again - first I want to apologize for posting the original copyright 2006 comment as anonymous. I don't have any problems having my name (Tom Moravansky) or my not-hard-to-figure-out-who-I-am alias (oldgearguy) associated with my statements.
Next - as far as private email goes, I seem to remember you seeing a link I had posted a few months ago to a picture of my Octopus and other hardware sequencers. You emailed me asking if it was OK to post the picture on your site and you also asked for my opinion comparing the features of the Octopus with the other hw sequencers.
Imagine my surprise when I wandered over to your site the day after that (for the first time) and saw not only my picture, but also my private email response posted.
Finally - I'll be in Redmond for two weeks in January. If you want to get together for a beer one evening and discuss stuff, that would be great. I'm from that older generation that used to communicate via letters, phone calls, and in person meetings. Seemed like it was easier to resolve disputes back in the day.
I still think you and Kevin should just make a phone call and talk it over. You both provide services on the net that are useful to different segments of the analog synth community and as such should attempt a more cooperative spirit. The community is very small and everyone knows everyone else. Spend time and energy to contribute and build up the community. Provide original content, create a resource that can be used to help care for, maintain, and use this old stuff.
Tom
4:54 AM
matrix said...
What do I want? I want Kevin to never do this to anyone else ever again. You have no idea how much stress it caused me and my family. If he does and you hear about it, point his next victim to this post.
11:16 AM
synthbaron said...
Then take this post down! What you two said in private was supposed to stay that way unless explicit permission was granted. Legalities be damned. You just keep prolonging the "stress" every minute this discussion remains up.
While Kevin may have acted childishly to begin with by asking for his content to be removed, you look as good right now as a bratty 2 year old going wild and crying about not having a TMX Elmo.
12:12 PM
prosoloist said...
Lightner thinks he is really special. I asked him a simple question on an ebay item and he was very rude and totally unprofessional. He may be THE synth god but he's certainly made an enemy here...actually a few.
12:55 PM
prosoloist said...
asked a question>>>>
Hi, do you have any idea if these are used for the GLIDE control on a Mini?
answer >>>Dear sir,
The nature of your email suggests that you are not not technically
competent enough to service your Moog. We recommend that you have a
qualified technician work on the synth, obtain parts, etc.
Additionally, your ebay score received and many bad feedbacks given, disqualify you from bidding on our items. This notice, as well as the description of what these items are for, is clearly shown in our auction.
Regards,
Monica<<<
it was actually Kevin that wrote the answer. I'm sure many of you here that are friends with him will side with him and/or say that the reply is justified. I was very offended by it for several reasons. First off, I am qualified to do mechanical and electrical work. Electronics? not exactly but a friend is and he is experienced with many synths. Secondly, I can buy the parts and have a tech put them in if needed. Thirdly, I have ONE negative feedback and it was in retaliation. Yes, I leave negative feedback when justified and so does Monica. This was just the beginning of our dispute. Again, I'm sure many will side with the high and mighty. Kevin, if you are going to reply here be sure to keep the text in the order they were sent and not chop them up.
I've bought ARP Quadra parts from a seller that couldn't be nicer. Sent me pdf files that clearly show the different types of sliders needed
3:57 PM
what a dork
no one ever sees this, do they?
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